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Old 06-18-2013, 02:58 PM   #61
'busa
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But what if the other worker didn't know the device was tampered with and got injured?
He needs to talk to HR.
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Old 06-18-2013, 03:06 PM   #62
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What does products liability have to do with occupational safety. If an employee removes safeguards, they are liable for their injuries. If the machine isn't properly guarded, the company is. In my experience, removing safety guarding or operating in an unsafe manner (servicing electrical panels without proper gear, for example) is grounds for termination.
Actually you are wrong. If an employee removes a safeguard the manufacturer can be found liable because the employee COULD remove the safeguard. I wish I was kidding, but I'm not. The plaintiff's theory is that since he could remove it, the product was not made safe. ZERO personal responsibility.

Secondly, per the worker's compensation law an injured employee cannot sue their employer (if they take WC benefits) unless they suffer a grave injury, which is very specific (loss of limb, complete loss of use of a limb, death, loss of 3 or more complete fingers, blindness, etc.).

I represent manufacturers and distributors, this is how I get involved in these workplace injury cases. I do this all day.
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Old 06-18-2013, 03:08 PM   #63
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Accidents happen ALL the time, trust me. You can make those machines as safe as you want, pass all the laws you want, and workers will still disassemble safety mechanisms to make their job easier and/or faster....

Then sue everyone when they get hurt. I'm not kidding. Thus is the life of a products liability attorney.

Or like the crane operator in PA last week. You can have all the rules in place and then he has an accident and they find he is under the influence of marijuana and has meth and cocaine in his system as well.
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Old 06-18-2013, 03:08 PM   #64
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What restaurant do you work at? I want to be sure to avoid it as I am sure sanitation and standards governing food safety are inconvenient as well.
Actually like all things government they start out with good ideas and they get abused. First of all, all of mine have As. Second, a restaurant can fail a health inspection without having any problems with food. Things like cages around lightbulb a, mop hangers, Etc are all violations. A big reason for low food quality today is thanks to the health department. NY started doing the letter grading just for money and no other reason.


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Old 06-18-2013, 03:12 PM   #65
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Actually you are wrong. If an employee removes a safeguard the manufacturer can be found liable because the employee COULD remove the safeguard. I wish I was kidding, but I'm not.
That's why a safeguard needs to be installed in a way that either requires a key or a specific tool that an operator is not expected to have access to. Furthermore, it needs to have redundancy built in.

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I do this all day.
Do you know much about bird law?

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Old 06-18-2013, 03:13 PM   #66
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A big reason for low food quality today is thanks to the health department.
Elaborate, please.
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Old 06-18-2013, 03:27 PM   #67
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He needs to talk to HR.
When did you sell your E90 ?

What are your driving now ?
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Old 06-18-2013, 03:30 PM   #68
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Elaborate, please.
Well, off the top of my head....

1) Many restaurants now use powdered or cartoned eggs rather than fresh eggs. Pooling eggs is against the law, and really busy places don't have time. If you are VERY busy (like a diner) taking out 2 eggs from the fridge every 10 seconds would raise the fridge temp outside of compliance, and again, you are in violation of the law. As a result, many MANY restaurants have switched to powder, since it doesn't have to be refrigerated at all and takes one bullet out of the chamber.

2) You like steak? A good steak needs to be cooked FROM room temp, not cold. That is against the law. A restaurant can't leave a piece of meat out of the fridge, so again, food quality suffers.

3) frozen salad. A busy place will precut vegetables because they don't have the time to slice veggies for every single order. When vegetables are sliced, they must be treated as protein. As a result, they must be kept in the fridge, which is damn near a freezer (35-37F), resulting in nasty ice cold and mealy vegetables.

4) Ever get rock hard butter at the restaurant? Same as above. Can't keep butter out.

5) Ever notice your tea and coffee are never as hot as you want it at a restaurant? Thank the health and safety peeps for that.

There are many others, but those are just some of the basic ones. You are no safer (anyone who has ever watched kitchen nightmares will see it,) you are not eating cleaner food from a cleaner restaurant, and all thats happening is you (the customer) are paying a higher price for your meal because the restaurant needs to pay a fine because the employee bathroom's fan didn't pull enough CFMs for the size of the room.
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Old 06-18-2013, 03:32 PM   #69
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When did you sell your E90 ?

What are your driving now ?
A month ago. Driving a friend's car while she's unable to drive for medical reasons until either she needs it again or I find the right vehicle.

Honestly, in recent months, I was just paranoid about something breaking on that car. I miss the fun and feel of the 335i, but I don't miss the issues.
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Old 06-18-2013, 03:49 PM   #70
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Well, off the top of my head....

1) Many restaurants now use powdered or cartoned eggs rather than fresh eggs. Pooling eggs is against the law, and really busy places don't have time. If you are VERY busy (like a diner) taking out 2 eggs from the fridge every 10 seconds would raise the fridge temp outside of compliance, and again, you are in violation of the law. As a result, many MANY restaurants have switched to powder, since it doesn't have to be refrigerated at all and takes one bullet out of the chamber.
Sounds like a matter of time crunch for the restaurant, not a fault of regulations.

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2) You like steak? A good steak needs to be cooked FROM room temp, not cold. That is against the law. A restaurant can't leave a piece of meat out of the fridge, so again, food quality suffers.
How long would you like to leave it out of the fridge for? How long does a steak take to go from 40 deg F to 70 deg F? I've had some amazing steak. I wonder if it had all been left out to sit for extended periods.

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3) frozen salad. A busy place will precut vegetables because they don't have the time to slice veggies for every single order. When vegetables are sliced, they must be treated as protein. As a result, they must be kept in the fridge, which is damn near a freezer (35-37F), resulting in nasty ice cold and mealy vegetables.
I wouldn't know about that. Maybe you're right.

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4) Ever get rock hard butter at the restaurant? Same as above. Can't keep butter out.
Yeah, I've left bad reviews for that. Actually, no, I haven't.

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5) Ever notice your tea and coffee are never as hot as you want it at a restaurant? Thank the health and safety peeps for that.
How hot do you need it?

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There are many others, but those are just some of the basic ones. You are no safer (anyone who has ever watched kitchen nightmares will see it,) you are not eating cleaner food from a cleaner restaurant, and all thats happening is you (the customer) are paying a higher price for your meal because the restaurant needs to pay a fine because the employee bathroom's fan didn't pull enough CFMs for the size of the room.
Are you saying I should get my culinary industry information from reality shows?

Honestly, I find none of the reason above real or significant enough to trade safety for more easily spreadable butter.
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Old 06-18-2013, 03:57 PM   #71
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Sounds like a matter of time crunch for the restaurant, not a fault of regulations.

How long would you like to leave it out of the fridge for? How long does a steak take to go from 40 deg F to 70 deg F? I've had some amazing steak. I wonder if it had all been left out to sit for extended periods.

I wouldn't know about that. Maybe you're right.

Yeah, I've left bad reviews for that. Actually, no, I haven't.

How hot do you need it?


Are you saying I should get my culinary industry information from reality shows?

Honestly, I find none of the reason above real or significant enough to trade safety for more easily spreadable butter.
Restaurants are sacrificing quality as to not be extorted by the regulations. If thats ok with you, by all means, enjoy your powdered eggs. I prefer mine to be real eggs, and not 101 chemicals. Compare food safety standards in france VS the US. Better quality, and cleaner...yet they leave entire cuts of ribeye sitting at room temperature, they don't refrigirate eggs, etc. Just like the TSA, if you feel safer eating health department sanctioned food, more power to you, but in reality, it doesn't keep your food any safer. Keep in mind, inspections are once a year, so right after the inspection, you have a solid 10 months of guaranteed freedom to be as filthy as you want. Just so you know, Le Bernadin, one of the best restaurants in the world, received a C during their inspection, and rat holes in the wall received an A.
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Old 06-18-2013, 04:23 PM   #72
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Restaurants are sacrificing quality as to not be extorted by the regulations. If thats ok with you, by all means, enjoy your powdered eggs. I prefer mine to be real eggs, and not 101 chemicals. Compare food safety standards in france VS the US. Better quality, and cleaner...yet they leave entire cuts of ribeye sitting at room temperature, they don't refrigirate eggs, etc. Just like the TSA, if you feel safer eating health department sanctioned food, more power to you, but in reality, it doesn't keep your food any safer. Keep in mind, inspections are once a year, so right after the inspection, you have a solid 10 months of guaranteed freedom to be as filthy as you want. Just so you know, Le Bernadin, one of the best restaurants in the world, received a C during their inspection, and rat holes in the wall received an A.
I haven't eaten powdered eggs in a long time. So while many restaurants may use them, many do not. As busa pointed out, it sounds like a time crunch issue. And please try to leave you out your faulty comparisons. I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you know the food industry. But I doubt you understand too much about the TSA and whether they are an illusion of safety or not. Dailycaller and brietbart are not sufficient sources to judge the value of the TSA.
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Old 06-18-2013, 04:25 PM   #73
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A month ago. Driving a friend's car while she's unable to drive for medical reasons until either she needs it again or I find the right vehicle.

Honestly, in recent months, I was just paranoid about something breaking on that car. I miss the fun and feel of the 335i, but I don't miss the issues.
I agree. My car has been fun but this is the only car that has made me replace the expansion tank and 2 window regulators. And BMW seems to take more pride in their cars than other manufacturers.

I don't know if it is fun enough for me to shell out 40k for a new one when it gets replaced. But I have considered getting an off lease car as well. I have never done that though.

I might get a Lexus E350 (still pricey) , a Cadillac ATS, an Accord or maybe go back to a small SUV. I definitely want AWD or 4WD on my next car.
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Old 06-18-2013, 04:40 PM   #74
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Old 06-18-2013, 05:33 PM   #75
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That's why a safeguard needs to be installed in a way that either requires a key or a specific tool that an operator is not expected to have access to. Furthermore, it needs to have redundancy built in.
Thanks captain obvious
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Old 06-19-2013, 10:09 AM   #76
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There is no such thing as exploiting employees in the United States. Thats just something liberals made up. If you are being exploited, you are free to leave and find a new job. Last time I checked, slavery was abolished.

Tell that to the jurys that have found companies guilty of labor exploitation. Wrongly classifying workers to not have to pay them overtime, is just one example.

While exploitation of labor is not true for all companies. But, if you think it doesn't happen, you are deluded.

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Oh, and if my company goes down the tubes, guess what? I'll find a new job.
And one can only hope all those possible jobs will be union jobs. Or companies will only hire people who have worked for or support unions. After all, not hiring somebody because they haven't worked for union, even if they are more qualified, isn't discriminatory hiring practices, right.
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Old 06-19-2013, 10:28 AM   #77
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That's why a safeguard needs to be installed in a way that either requires a key or a specific tool that an operator is not expected to have access to.


Why doesn't it occur to you that a better approach would be tort reform, wherein judges and juries would be allowed to use some common sense, such as, "Hey, you're a dumbass for removing/defeating an obvious safeguard, so we find that you Mr. Plaintiff are at fault and find in favor of the defendant"?

It's called personal responsibility and accountability!
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Old 06-19-2013, 10:39 AM   #78
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Why doesn't it occur to you that a better approach would be tort reform, wherein judges and juries would be allowed to use some common sense, such as, "Hey, you're a dumbass for removing/defeating an obvious safeguard, so we find that you Mr. Plaintiff are at fault and find in favor of the defendant"?

It's called personal responsibility and accountability!
The object is not to prove to yourself how superior you are to others, but to ensure a safe and productive workplace.
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Old 06-19-2013, 11:12 AM   #79
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The object is not to prove to yourself how superior you are to others, but to ensure a safe and productive workplace.
The problem there is the first is implied with modern organizations and unions are built on subverting the second.

Early on, safety and fair pay were the goal and legitimate reason for unionizing. Today unfortunately, they are built on getting exorbitant amounts of money for doing the absolute least amount of work. Holding companies hostage to get insane wage for work a monkey could do seems a bit criminal right?
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Old 06-19-2013, 11:31 AM   #80
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I think a lot of companies pay people out for unused vacation when they separate from the company

I know mine does, as did the last company (both major companies)
I am a union worker, though I'm not necessarily pro union. I do not agree with these intimidation tactics this thread has been talking about either.
I would say though, that a lot of companies also pay for sick leave not taken in a year. Though my company neither pays for vacation not taken, nor sick leave not taken. We can roll a certain amount of vacation over into the next year however.


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