E46 BMW Social Directory E46 FAQ 3-Series Discussion Forums BMW Photo Gallery BMW 3-Series Technical Information E46 Fanatics - The Ultimate BMW Resource BMW Vendors General E46 Forum The Tire Rack's Tire Wheel Forum Forced Induction Forum The Off-Topic The E46 BMW Showroom For Sale, For Trade or Wanting to Buy

Welcome to the E46Fanatics forums. E46Fanatics is the premiere website for BMW 3 series owners around the world with interactive forums, a geographical enthusiast directory, photo galleries, and technical information for BMW enthusiasts.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Go Back   E46Fanatics > Everything Else > The Off-Topic > Political Talk

Political Talk
You may discuss anything regarding politics in this forum ONLY. If you cannot respect others opinions, your access to this forum will be removed.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 06-24-2013, 01:13 PM   #21
badfast
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Northern Korea
Posts: 526
My Ride: A Car
The summary I took away was Chase is a white guy in low demand who thinks he is intelligent.
badfast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2013, 02:02 PM   #22
2000_328CI
DK Jack Sparrow
 
2000_328CI's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Isla de Muerta | DC/VA
Posts: 29,024
My Ride: 328Ci | Range Rover
Send a message via AIM to 2000_328CI Send a message via MSN to 2000_328CI
Quote:
Originally Posted by badfast View Post
The summary I took away was Chase is a white guy in low demand who thinks he is intelligent.
Yeup.. you hit the nail on the head
__________________

Everything you need to know on muffler deletes : http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=745244
Wrapping an E46 in Vinyl : http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...ghlight=bronze
2000_328CI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2013, 02:09 PM   #23
JJR4884
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Nowhere
Posts: 18,183
My Ride: BMW
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carskibum View Post
Highest offender profile in the US is 17-24yo (Crime Prone Age Group) and African American. (Proportionally more crime per capita)

But I'm racist for pointing out facts.
Dude why do you have to state the fact that they are African American? Does it matter? I think you should seek help, you are racist.




For the record I call them black. I am white, people call me white. They don't call me Italian America. Even indians i know are taking on the "I'm brown" name. Take that racism!

Last edited by JJR4884; 06-24-2013 at 02:10 PM.
JJR4884 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2013, 03:24 PM   #24
2000_328CI
DK Jack Sparrow
 
2000_328CI's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Isla de Muerta | DC/VA
Posts: 29,024
My Ride: 328Ci | Range Rover
Send a message via AIM to 2000_328CI Send a message via MSN to 2000_328CI
Judge people by their actions and choices.. not their skin color, creed, or their sexual preferences.

But when describing a suspect, DESCRIBE THEM.

Quote:
de·scribe (d-skrb)
tr.v. de·scribed, de·scrib·ing, de·scribes
1. To give an account of in speech or writing.
2. To convey an idea or impression of; characterize: She described her childhood as a time of wonder and discovery.
3. To represent pictorially; depict: Goya's etchings describe the horrors of war in grotesque detail.
4. To trace the form or outline of: describe a circle with a compass.
__________________

Everything you need to know on muffler deletes : http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=745244
Wrapping an E46 in Vinyl : http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...ghlight=bronze

Last edited by 2000_328CI; 06-24-2013 at 03:25 PM.
2000_328CI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2013, 08:11 AM   #25
'busa
Registered User
 
'busa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: FL
Posts: 1,465
My Ride: E90 335i (sold)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2000_328CI View Post
Judge people by their actions and choices.. not their skin color, creed, or their sexual preferences.

But when describing a suspect, DESCRIBE THEM.
They have said police are free, under the bill, to chase leads that include descriptions but cannot stop and frisk people based solely on those descriptions.
__________________
'busa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2013, 08:15 AM   #26
'busa
Registered User
 
'busa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: FL
Posts: 1,465
My Ride: E90 335i (sold)
I think that, by now, enough information is out to determine that the OP's title and the NYP article are exaggerated and untrue.
__________________
'busa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2013, 08:45 AM   #27
Carskibum
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Hoboken, NJ
Posts: 3,116
My Ride: E90
Send a message via AIM to Carskibum
Quote:
Originally Posted by casino is no lie View Post
You're not racist for citing statistics. However, one might consider you racist for highlighting a statistics that would otherwise paint a certain demographic in an unfavorable light with providing zero context as to how it pertains to this thread.
Aren't we talking about race related observation as it pertains to police procedure?
__________________
Carskibum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2013, 08:59 AM   #28
casino is no lie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: CDT
Posts: 76
My Ride: M54B30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carskibum View Post
Aren't we talking about race related observation as it pertains to police procedure?
We are talking about a law that may prevent law enforcement from providing detailed descriptions of suspects. You are posting "statistics" with no context as to how they relate to the thread topic. And the fact that you focused on one group in particular and felt compelled to warn us ahead of time that you're not racist is enough for anyone with half a brain to raise an eyebrow.
__________________
casino is no lie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2013, 09:29 AM   #29
Zell
Registered User
 
Zell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Such City
Posts: 5,669
My Ride: '02 Dogemobile Shibe
Hold on a second.

Here is a statistical model using death penalty data.

logit(Death Penalty) = black person + white victim + culpability

Where being black or not black, a white or not white victim are simple 1's and 0's, and culpability is measured from 1-5. You won't be able to read this data without SAS.

Even though it is factual based upon this model, is it racist to say that yes, a black person that kills a white person is more likely to have the death penalty than a white person committing a crime?

What kind of stupid world do we live in that we have to leave out variables because some person will feel bad?
__________________
Zell is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2013, 07:57 AM   #30
Carskibum
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Hoboken, NJ
Posts: 3,116
My Ride: E90
Send a message via AIM to Carskibum
Quote:
Originally Posted by casino is no lie View Post
We are talking about a law that may prevent law enforcement from providing detailed descriptions of suspects. You are posting "statistics" with no context as to how they relate to the thread topic. And the fact that you focused on one group in particular and felt compelled to warn us ahead of time that you're not racist is enough for anyone with half a brain to raise an eyebrow.
So providing context as to who the primary offenders are doesn't correlate? When those who are trying to remove the descriptions are the ones who commit more crime?
__________________
Carskibum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2013, 08:40 AM   #31
casino is no lie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: CDT
Posts: 76
My Ride: M54B30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carskibum View Post
So providing context as to who the primary offenders are doesn't correlate? When those who are trying to remove the descriptions are the ones who commit more crime?
Correlation does not imply causation. While I advocate a police officer being allowed to describe a suspect, I do not support programs like stop-and-frisk that violate civil liberties. Do you?
__________________
casino is no lie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2013, 09:20 AM   #32
Carskibum
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Hoboken, NJ
Posts: 3,116
My Ride: E90
Send a message via AIM to Carskibum
Quote:
Originally Posted by casino is no lie View Post
Correlation does not imply causation. While I advocate a police officer being allowed to describe a suspect, I do not support programs like stop-and-frisk that violate civil liberties. Do you?
You can't argue the success that it has brought to NYC in regard to gun crimes. Safest major city in the country for gun violence.

Because they can be stopped at any time, criminals do not carry fire arms. If they are caught, 2 years on the island.

The combination of Stop and Frisk and the deterrent of 2 year for unlawful carry has made a significant difference.
__________________

Last edited by Carskibum; 06-26-2013 at 09:24 AM.
Carskibum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2013, 09:22 AM   #33
Zell
Registered User
 
Zell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Such City
Posts: 5,669
My Ride: '02 Dogemobile Shibe
Quote:
Originally Posted by casino is no lie View Post
Correlation does not imply causation. While I advocate a police officer being allowed to describe a suspect, I do not support programs like stop-and-frisk that violate civil liberties. Do you?
The only reason why people use that phrase is because the only way causation can be concluded is from literally making a controlled experiment.

Correlation means a whole lot when you control for all the other factors.
__________________
Zell is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2013, 09:34 AM   #34
casino is no lie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: CDT
Posts: 76
My Ride: M54B30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carskibum View Post
You can't argue the success that it has brought to NYC in regard to gun crimes. Safest major city in the country for gun violence.
LA has a lower violent crime rate per capita than NYC. Same with Austin and Phoenix. Furthermore, it's a violation of the 4th Amendment. There are several videos of both victims and the officers executing the practice speaking out about it.

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin




Quote:
Originally Posted by Zell View Post
The only reason why people use that phrase is because the only way causation can be concluded is from literally making a controlled experiment.

Correlation means a whole lot when you control for all the other factors.
All other factors are not being controlled for under stop-and-frisk. That's the problem
__________________
casino is no lie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2013, 09:38 AM   #35
Zell
Registered User
 
Zell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Such City
Posts: 5,669
My Ride: '02 Dogemobile Shibe
Quote:
Originally Posted by casino is no lie View Post

All other factors are not being controlled for under stop-and-frisk. That's the problem
Sorry, I mean to comment I was responding to specifically corr != causation, not the frisking part.
__________________
Zell is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2013, 09:40 AM   #36
casino is no lie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: CDT
Posts: 76
My Ride: M54B30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zell View Post
Sorry, I mean to comment I was responding to specifically corr != causation, not the frisking part.
As someone who has designed experiments in the past I take correlation != causation seriously. :-|
__________________
casino is no lie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2013, 09:53 AM   #37
Zell
Registered User
 
Zell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Such City
Posts: 5,669
My Ride: '02 Dogemobile Shibe
Quote:
Originally Posted by casino is no lie View Post
As someone who has designed experiments in the past I take correlation != causation seriously. :-|
I do from time-to-time as well, though it's not exactly my favorite thing to do. That's why when I design experiments I control for as many factors as possible.
__________________
Zell is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2013, 11:02 AM   #38
Carskibum
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Hoboken, NJ
Posts: 3,116
My Ride: E90
Send a message via AIM to Carskibum
Quote:
Originally Posted by casino is no lie View Post
LA has a lower violent crime rate per capita than NYC. Same with Austin and Phoenix. Furthermore, it's a violation of the 4th Amendment. There are several videos of both victims and the officers executing the practice speaking out about it.

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin


Austin yes, others no. NYC has the lowest gun related violence rate in the country for a real major city.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/pdf/wk/mm6018.pdf
__________________

Last edited by Carskibum; 06-26-2013 at 11:02 AM.
Carskibum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2013, 11:16 AM   #39
casino is no lie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: CDT
Posts: 76
My Ride: M54B30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carskibum View Post
Austin yes, others no. NYC has the lowest gun related violence rate in the country for a real major city.
Portland, San Diego, Seattle, San Jose, Providence, Salt Lake City and Raleigh all have lower homicide rates due to firearms than NYC. And as previously stated the violent crime rate is also higher than other cities who do not employ a stop-and-frisk practice based solely on racial profiling.

You can rationalize its justification all you want but it doesn't negate that fact that it's a violation of the 4th Amendment.
__________________
casino is no lie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2013, 11:32 AM   #40
VaderDave
Invictus
 
VaderDave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: El Dorado Hills, CA
Posts: 11,896
My Ride: 330CiC ZHP
Stop and frisk is not unconstitutional in and of itself. The NYC ruling dealt with stops where there was not a reasonable suspicion of illegal activity in progress--the police were stopping and frisking people on suspicion of trespassing, but the people stopped were actually outside of the building (and thus not trespassing).
VaderDave is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Censor is ON





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:13 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
(c) 1999 - 2011 performanceIX Inc - privacy policy - terms of use