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Political Talk
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Old 06-25-2013, 10:29 AM   #1
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Snowden (NSA Leaker): Champ or Chump?

A bit closer to champ, if not fully on that pedestal, for revealing in general what I think ought to be given more scrutiny and accountability. He seemed to have done this a bit more carefully than, say, Manning did by not revealing operational details that would harm individuals.

Yeah, the NSA and too many in the security community would like to cloak all this in absolute invisibility, but I think in the long run this is dangerous for a democracy and that Snowden's revelations will prove beneficial to reigning in some of these surveillance programs, subjecting them to real and effective oversight and accountability rather than the rather rubber stamp oversight than now seems to be in place.

Ben Franklin’s admonition comes to mind: “Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”

Last edited by Rhumb; 06-25-2013 at 11:00 AM.
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Old 06-25-2013, 10:41 AM   #2
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Snowden is becoming a case of when the messenger kills the message.
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Old 06-25-2013, 10:45 AM   #3
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I think he is a chump. I find it funny how the media is trying to portray him as something else. He didn't escape Hong Kong. He is politically toxic, so they weren't going to keep him. I am sure they debriefed him and helped him get to Moscow. Turning him over to US was never going to happen when you consider not long ago the US gave asylum to a Chen Guangcheng. He is safe in Russia as well. The US is pretty good at burning bridges.
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Old 06-25-2013, 10:46 AM   #4
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Can we choose "C: All of the Above"?
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Old 06-25-2013, 11:42 AM   #5
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Old 06-25-2013, 11:43 AM   #6
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I'm conflicted on what he is, so I like VD's answer of C: All of the above.


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trader
What does he trade? Nyuck Nyuck Nyuck
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Old 06-25-2013, 12:16 PM   #7
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Huge chump. Dude didn't reveal anything that people didn't already know and he threw away his life for his moment in the spotlight. If he ever comes back to the US he's going to spend at least 2 decades in Federal prison.
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Old 06-25-2013, 12:16 PM   #8
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Do you feel more betrayed by his actions or that of our Government?
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Old 06-25-2013, 12:17 PM   #9
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Dude didn't reveal anything that people didn't already know...
There is a distinct difference between suspecting you know something and actually having it confirmed. He provided the latter.
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Old 06-25-2013, 12:19 PM   #10
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Dude is a hero in my eyes. I'm sure history will say otherwise.

There is no such thing as being a traitor to your government, only to your people.
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Old 06-25-2013, 12:29 PM   #11
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trader
This guy exposed the government spying on you yet he is the traitor?
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Old 06-25-2013, 12:38 PM   #12
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I'm pretty torn on this one, was leaning more towards champ until it came out that he purposely gained specific employment to obtain the information that he let out. That's fairly underhanded, even if I support the ends. Also, he's becoming the story and not what he exposed...that's bad
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Old 06-25-2013, 12:46 PM   #13
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Do you feel more betrayed by his actions or that of out Government?
Agreed.


So we have a guy who is wanted by the government for releasing private/secret information about the very same government operating in a private/secret fashion to undermine it's citizens.
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Old 06-25-2013, 01:50 PM   #14
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I believe he is a champ. I don't see anyone who values their rights and freedoms can say otherwise.
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Old 06-25-2013, 01:59 PM   #15
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Old 06-25-2013, 03:04 PM   #16
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Chump, a traitor and a terrorist.

Seems like a lot of people don't understand that the government was building the capability and infrastructure to grab data quickly when a writ is issued. They were not capable of that before. Popular opinion is that they are looking at your verizon texts and Fb messages. No, they are not. They don't have the headcount and don't have the authority to do so. They simply have an aggregated mass of data in which to more effectively pull from. Note that verizon used to quote them 30 days to pull records. Imagine waiting that long in an active investigation. Now they can have that information, when need, almost instantly.

Taking a look at this intelligently rather than hysterically is important. One note that seems to be overlooked is the fact that this is pretty much meaningless in the war on terror. Islamic extremists learn day 1 not to use cell phones, bank accounts, and electric conversation. Information in formalized terror networks is passed hand to hand. Currency is passed through the Hawala system.
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Old 06-25-2013, 03:08 PM   #17
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This guy exposed the government spying on you yet he is the traitor?
No, he is a trader.

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Old 06-25-2013, 04:49 PM   #18
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Re: Snowden (NSA Leaker): Champ or Chump?

What enemies did he aide by leaking? I keep hearing the pundits and politicians weigh in that he helped our enemies such a China and Russia, but I was unaware that we are currently involved in a war with either country.

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Old 06-25-2013, 04:52 PM   #19
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The enemy is apparently every United States citizen.
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Old 06-25-2013, 04:57 PM   #20
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Chump, a traitor and a terrorist.

Seems like a lot of people don't understand that the government was building the capability and infrastructure to grab data quickly when a writ is issued. They were not capable of that before. Popular opinion is that they are looking at your verizon texts and Fb messages. No, they are not. They don't have the headcount and don't have the authority to do so. They simply have an aggregated mass of data in which to more effectively pull from. Note that verizon used to quote them 30 days to pull records. Imagine waiting that long in an active investigation. Now they can have that information, when need, almost instantly.

Taking a look at this intelligently rather than hysterically is important. One note that seems to be overlooked is the fact that this is pretty much meaningless in the war on terror. Islamic extremists learn day 1 not to use cell phones, bank accounts, and electric conversation. Information in formalized terror networks is passed hand to hand. Currency is passed through the Hawala system.
They do use phone, radios, and other modern forms of communication. Funny enough many terrorist organizations keep and maintain financial documents. They are actually quite adept at accounting practices.

Last edited by badfast; 06-25-2013 at 04:58 PM.
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