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Old 06-26-2013, 03:48 PM   #41
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I think he is a chump. I find it funny how the media is trying to portray him as something else. He didn't escape Hong Kong. He is politically toxic, so they weren't going to keep him. I am sure they debriefed him and helped him get to Moscow. Turning him over to US was never going to happen when you consider not long ago the US gave asylum to a Chen Guangcheng. He is safe in Russia as well. The US is pretty good at burning bridges.
+1 Totally agree! Hypocritical how US gives asylum to China's political prisoners but Snowden arrives, they expect the whole world to comply lol!
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Old 06-26-2013, 04:16 PM   #42
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Snowden (NSA Leaker): Champ or Chump?

Chump big time. I can't help but wonder if these policies had been in place before 9/11 than perhaps it could've been prevented and 3,000 lives saved?






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Old 06-26-2013, 04:43 PM   #43
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An oft made point, but if the US (or any government for that matter) aren't doing anything wrong or morally suspect with any of this stuff, then why is it all classified? They'll be the first ones to tell citizens they have nothing to fear from this if you're not doing anything wrong. It's all so conter-intuitive that most people believe the bullshit they're being fed...
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Old 06-26-2013, 04:59 PM   #44
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An oft made point, but if the US (or any government for that matter) aren't doing anything wrong or morally suspect with any of this stuff, then why is it all classified? They'll be the first ones to tell citizens they have nothing to fear from this if you're not doing anything wrong. It's all so conter-intuitive that most people believe the bullshit they're being fed...
Operational security. If everyone knows you have a capability, they change their tactics.
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Old 06-26-2013, 05:08 PM   #45
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then why is it all classified?

Here's an anecdote:

*Supposedly* there was a leak to the media circa 1998 that purported that the US Govt is tracking Bin Laden by his phone, which in turn, is broadcast everywhere by news outlets and naturally Bin Laden finds out. Bin Laden already concerned with US surveillance, in turn, stops communicating via such methods and drops off the face of the earth - so to speak, goes dark. Takes us until 2011 to find him.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...122101994.html

In sum, sources and methods are classified in order to protect how intelligence is acquired, to maintain advantage over our enemies, advance our national interests, and to provide a decision advantage to our policy/decision makers. If things were public knowledge, our opponents could leverage our methods against us, or even disrupt/deny intelligence.

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Old 06-26-2013, 05:19 PM   #46
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Snowden (NSA Leaker): Champ or Chump?

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Originally Posted by MDydinanM View Post
Here's an anecdote:

*Supposedly* there was a leak to the media circa 1998 that purported that the US Govt is tracking Bin Laden by his phone, which in turn, is broadcast everywhere by news outlets and naturally Bin Laden finds out. Bin Laden already concerned with US surveillance, in turn, stops communicating via such methods and drops off the face of the earth - so to speak, goes dark. Takes us until 2011 to find him.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...122101994.html

In sum, sources and methods are classified in order to protect how intelligence is acquired, to maintain advantage over our enemies, advance our national interests, and to provide a decision advantage to our policy/decision makers. If things were public knowledge, our opponents could leverage our methods against us, or even disrupt/deny intelligence.
Exactly.


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Old 06-27-2013, 03:53 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by MDydinanM View Post
Here's an anecdote:

*Supposedly* there was a leak to the media circa 1998 that purported that the US Govt is tracking Bin Laden by his phone, which in turn, is broadcast everywhere by news outlets and naturally Bin Laden finds out. Bin Laden already concerned with US surveillance, in turn, stops communicating via such methods and drops off the face of the earth - so to speak, goes dark. Takes us until 2011 to find him.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...122101994.html

In sum, sources and methods are classified in order to protect how intelligence is acquired, to maintain advantage over our enemies, advance our national interests, and to provide a decision advantage to our policy/decision makers. If things were public knowledge, our opponents could leverage our methods against us, or even disrupt/deny intelligence.
Did you read that before you posted that?

My point is where is the end game for all this crap? Is the defense against terrorist outrages really enough to allow all this snooping to go on? I was caught up in an IRA bombing in Canary Wharf in London years back and I don't for one minute think that Prism or projects like it are in any way proportionate to the risk being faced.
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Old 06-27-2013, 03:59 PM   #48
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Snowden (NSA Leaker): Champ or Chump?

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An oft made point, but if the US (or any government for that matter) aren't doing anything wrong or morally suspect with any of this stuff, then why is it all classified? They'll be the first ones to tell citizens they have nothing to fear from this if you're not doing anything wrong. It's all so conter-intuitive that most people believe the bullshit they're being fed...
Information can't be classified because its morally/ethically wrong or embarrassing, or because its illegal.


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Old 06-27-2013, 04:00 PM   #49
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Snowden (NSA Leaker): Champ or Chump?

Champ/chump? Hero/villain?

Neither. Those titles give him too much credit. He's just a guy who broke the law.


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Old 06-27-2013, 04:09 PM   #50
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He's wanted for espinage and being a traitor for exposing to the American people what their Govt was doing illegally.

This is how the govt keeps it's dirty little secrets. Prosecute anyone who tells the secrets or have them killed.

Whatever happened to the IRS, NSA, Benghazi, etc. scandels?
WAG THE DOG.
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Old 06-27-2013, 04:10 PM   #51
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He's wanted for espinage and being a traitor for exposing to the American people what their Govt was doing illegally.

This is how the govt keeps it's dirty little secrets. Prosecute anyone who tells the secrets or have them killed.

Whatever happened to the IRS, NSA, Benghazi, etc. scandels?
WAG THE DOG.
It's not illegal. The Patriot Act specifically allows this type of monitoring.


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Old 06-27-2013, 04:18 PM   #52
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My point is where is the end game for all this crap?
You will never know the end-game of all of this unless you work in that industry. It's kept a deep secret for a reason, mainly from all the stuff I posted above.

The CIA came in to try and recruit us in school in order to do analytics intelligence. This type of data is a similar type of intelligence analysis that they would have us doing. There were people in my graduate class who the CIA sent in order to become better analysts who actually worked with the data to help capture Bin Laden. They were extremely secretive about it. They never could talk about exactly what they did. All they said was, "It's boring."

The CIA basically emphasized that if we get hired, no one below our security clearance will ever know what we will do, and that the background checks to get into the CIA are incredibly stringent. Personally, not my cup of tea. 'Specially the salaries. They were a joke. $60k a year to do that, and then be constantly monitored?
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Old 06-27-2013, 04:32 PM   #53
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They were a joke. $60k a year to do that, and then be constantly monitored?
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Counterterrorism Analyst
Work Schedule: Full Time
Salary: $49,861 - $97,333*
Location: Washington, DC metropolitan area
https://www.cia.gov/careers/opportun...m-analyst.html

It depends on what grade and step you enter the government workforce. You're forgetting, government salary, like the military, has base pay plus locality pay.

Entry level, yeah, you'll make peanuts.

DC area, the locality pay is pretty high. A person with experience, a college degree and graduate degree can enter the govt as a GS12 or 13 and make around $90K starting. With step increases, that can increase to $100K.

Here are the pay tables for the DC area::
http://www.opm.gov/policy-data-overs...rade-and-step/

All depends...

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Old 06-27-2013, 04:40 PM   #54
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It's not illegal. The Patriot Act specifically allows this type of monitoring.


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The original PA was to monitor incoming and outgoing calls to countries the US deemed an enemy.

The majority of the public had know idea that the newly passed act allowed the American citizens were also being monitored.

If they did and it was legal, why is this such a BIG DEAL. Snowden didn't reveal anything new?
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Old 06-27-2013, 05:10 PM   #55
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Entry level, yeah, you'll make peanuts.
That's essentially the position they were hiring for. Now, if you are fluent in tons of languages, then honestly I'd say do it because not only are you really valuable, but they give you a pretty substantial signing bonus and increase in salary per language that you know. I was fairly shocked how much they give you for knowing languages like Arabic, Chinese, and Korean.
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Old 06-27-2013, 10:56 PM   #56
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Old 06-28-2013, 10:09 AM   #57
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He was going to get asylum, it was the only rational option. There was never a doubt and the US increased the likelihood when they threatened Ecuador. It became a power play at that point. The US sought to use its power to prevent Ecuador from granting asylum to Snowden. It threatened trade impacts. Forgoing the status quo Ecuador grants asylum and gains some prestige and power but will likely be impacted by trade relations with the US (provided the US follows through).
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Old 06-28-2013, 10:13 AM   #58
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I thought it was a pretty dick move on the part of the US to threaten Ecuador.
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Old 06-28-2013, 11:14 AM   #59
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If they did and it was legal, why is this such a BIG DEAL. Snowden didn't reveal anything new?
It isn't a big deal to anyone other than the republicans who are trying to make it a big deal.

Snowden would be a champ if he had uncovered illegal activity. He didn't.

Chump.
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Old 06-28-2013, 12:44 PM   #60
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I thought it was a pretty dick move on the part of the US to threaten Ecuador.
I mean did you expect them to say, "Sure, go ahead and take him! We don't mind!" The dude just leaked tons of confidential information. They're pissed.
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