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Old 07-28-2013, 03:21 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by willsbma View Post
How long do you think stock guts will last making 500 ponys?
I have no idea its unknown territory! I believe I'm the only person pushing this kind of power on a 2.5L with a stock block.
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Old 07-28-2013, 03:57 PM   #42
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I'm really excited to hear that you have been successful so far. I plan on going FI with forged internals in the future so ill be monitoring your mileage. Keep us updated and best of luck!
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Old 08-12-2013, 11:13 PM   #43
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Congrats! I have seen his first build with his top mount.
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Old 08-12-2013, 11:27 PM   #44
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I am late to the party, but GREAT job on this home built beast! Keep it up man, i love these type of threads
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Old 08-13-2013, 05:11 PM   #45
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Thanks guys. I don't know how long it will last, but I turn down the boost for normal driving. Just saving for ether parts to build up a m54 (clutch, LSD etc) OR sell the car and get a M3 and convert that.
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Old 08-13-2013, 09:28 PM   #46
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So, how would one go about acquiring the "tune" you are using or even coming close to it? Thats the only thing that is stopping me and has stopped me from following your path.


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Old 08-14-2013, 03:49 AM   #47
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So, how would one go about acquiring the "tune" you are using or even coming close to it? Thats the only thing that is stopping me and has stopped me from following your path.
Assuming that you acquire an EMS like mine (Pro EFI, and patch harness) As I know the 330 and 325 has been figured out(CAN bus) therefore all one then needs is to flash the EMS with 325/330 base tune, then one can get the engine running, but you will need to ether have someone tune it or your self in-order to run right.

The only real challenge I had to overcome was IDLE issues, and I fixed it by fooling the DME via resistors to 12v for the ICV (DSC + brake light stayed off ) then let Pro EFI run ICV. Its interesting logging ICV in relation to the TPS, now that the EMS runs the ICV I can finally tweak throttle response to be crisp, like factory intended, if not better.

Now I can finish with a MAF simulator (since I'm running SD only) then I'll be completely check engine light free

In-sort, the "tune" can be realistically done. As I've mentioned in earlier responses, the guess work has for the most part been figured out (on ProEFI) I would indorse this EMS, as its UI is a little different then most, but if you know how to tune a car, then it wont take long to figure out.

Also Depends on your goals to what "tune" you should go with, and if you like to constantly mod/tweak your setup, and want to spend that little extra bit on the tuning hardware that one day might save your overall investment, your engine.
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Old 08-14-2013, 06:56 AM   #48
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Finally. Some explanation and knowledge. Which EMS from pro efi are you using? Hope you dont mind me picking your brain, im chalked full of questions.


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Old 08-14-2013, 07:59 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by bimmerguy055 View Post
Assuming that you acquire an EMS like mine (Pro EFI, and patch harness) As I know the 330 and 325 has been figured out(CAN bus) therefore all one then needs is to flash the EMS with 325/330 base tune, then one can get the engine running, but you will need to ether have someone tune it or your self in-order to run right.

The only real challenge I had to overcome was IDLE issues, and I fixed it by fooling the DME via resistors to 12v for the ICV (DSC + brake light stayed off ) then let Pro EFI run ICV. Its interesting logging ICV in relation to the TPS, now that the EMS runs the ICV I can finally tweak throttle response to be crisp, like factory intended, if not better.

Now I can finish with a MAF simulator (since I'm running SD only) then I'll be completely check engine light free

In-sort, the "tune" can be realistically done. As I've mentioned in earlier responses, the guess work has for the most part been figured out (on ProEFI) I would indorse this EMS, as its UI is a little different then most, but if you know how to tune a car, then it wont take long to figure out.

Also Depends on your goals to what "tune" you should go with, and if you like to constantly mod/tweak your setup, and want to spend that little extra bit on the tuning hardware that one day might save your overall investment, your engine.
What is this patch harness you speak of? They have a pre-made harness for the M3 application, but the pinout is different for MS43/5. MS45 is especially different due to the wideband O2.

With respect to idle control, was the car running well with the DME controlling idle and throttle, or did you have to move throttle to ProEFI for it to work at all? The other important piece of this was at what point did you remove the MAF, as the DME is going to be quite unhappy without it. Speed density is a fallback strategy for most manufacturers, and thus part of "limp home mode."

I'd be very interested in how you rate drivability after you get the MAF simulator hooked up. That will make the DME happy, which should then ensure the cams are in the right spot, and in theory the car should drive like stock, if people tell the truth about their experiences.

How is startup (cranking) time versus the MS43/5? I know they were a little bit extended on the M3, I'm curious how they are here.

A cold start video + idle after the MAF simulator is in would be awesome.

Are things like iBoost control from cruise control working? You mentioned the CAN stuff has been figured out, I'm just wondering if it's pretty much the same as the M3 application, or if there are things still missing.

Thanks for sharing your experiences so far.

-Matt
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Old 08-14-2013, 02:07 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2lgt2qt View Post
Finally. Some explanation and knowledge. Which EMS from pro efi are you using? Hope you dont mind me picking your brain, im chalked full of questions.
The Pro 128 (good for up to 12 cylinders) Keep in mind the Pro 48 is for 4 cylinders. I want to help out the bmw community, unlike some whom hold the knowledge for profit or personal reasons I encourage modding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdrobnak View Post
What is this patch harness you speak of? They have a pre-made harness for the M3 application, but the pinout is different for MS43/5. MS45 is especially different due to the wideband O2.

With respect to idle control, was the car running well with the DME controlling idle and throttle, or did you have to move throttle to ProEFI for it to work at all? The other important piece of this was at what point did you remove the MAF, as the DME is going to be quite unhappy without it. Speed density is a fallback strategy for most manufacturers, and thus part of "limp home mode."

I'd be very interested in how you rate drivability after you get the MAF simulator hooked up. That will make the DME happy, which should then ensure the cams are in the right spot, and in theory the car should drive like stock, if people tell the truth about their experiences.

How is startup (cranking) time versus the MS43/5? I know they were a little bit extended on the M3, I'm curious how they are here.

A cold start video + idle after the MAF simulator is in would be awesome.

Are things like iBoost control from cruise control working? You mentioned the CAN stuff has been figured out, I'm just wondering if it's pretty much the same as the M3 application, or if there are things still missing.

Thanks for sharing your experiences so far.

-Matt
Matt,

In respect of the patch harness, I meant when one acquires the M3 harness, then slightly modifying it to non-M spec (hence patch harness). Now the MS54 DME uses the same connectors, In-fact the ONLY difference is of 5 pins (according to ProEFI's pinout sheet) they are:
- camshaft position sensor input (missing from m3 harness)
- crankshaft position sensor (M3 only, non-M doesn't have one)
- knock sensor #1 + 3 return (missing from m3 harness)
- Cam sync Relay control output (M3 only)

Keep in mind this is just how Jason configured it. He left the VANOS to be controlled by the DME. Now you can use Pro EFI to take control of it, but honestly There would be little reason unless your anal, and want to potentially squeeze ever last HP out of the engine (like if your doing a high HP build)

Now about MS45, Yes I'm sure it has very slightly different pinouts, but the critical sensors/input/outputs are the same that can be verified on HERE Also, I'm not sure exactly if the 330 jason tested used a MS45 or MS43 DME, as my CAN bus had to be reverse-engineered so ProEFI can talk to the car's sensors.

I'd say the car ran well with the DME running the ICV, but the idle would be sporadic, as the DME and the EMS were fighting each other. Keep in-mind the only thing ProEFI is actually controlling is ICV, injectors, and ignition (right now at least) I removed the MAF for two reasons: oil from the turbo got in charge pipe, then got on the MAF and u know that causes the MAF to act up. 2ndly, The MAF housing is crappy to hold boost, in fact I had to separate the actual sensor from the house (since it leaked under boost) then the housing would pop off over 10lbs of boost. I didnt want to clamp down on a plastic housing to much to break it, so the hell with it. Speed density was attractive due to eliminating the restrictive MAF ( screens in-side) plus those other 2 reasons I just mentioned.

As it sits drivability is decent, but I'm very curious how it behaves with the MAF simulator, plus I continue to tweak the tune until I'm satisfied.

Startup takes just slightly longer than stock, but not a big deal.

Iboost control is not working on my car via cruise control buttons. Thats one of the things That I was thinking of tackling on. I have to reverse-engineer the CAN signals to get the correct address, Yes it can be figured out, but I'm not sure if its worth my time to get the data then figure out the pattern to an address for Jason to code it.

I just keep my boost at one setpoint. Though it would be nice to change boost targets, its just a "plus"
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Old 08-14-2013, 03:54 PM   #51
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What's the name of the shop that did the tune?
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Old 08-14-2013, 03:56 PM   #52
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What's the name of the shop that did the tune?
It wasn't a shop, but a local guy (LBC) whom personally knows Jason, and the software. This was just a base tune, then I tweaked it.
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Old 08-14-2013, 06:10 PM   #53
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It wasn't a shop, but a local guy (LBC) whom personally knows Jason, and the software. This was just a base tune, then I tweaked it.
Very interesting. I ask because I'm looking to get a custom tune for my custom build as well. Any ideas?. The current tune I have is ok... but it definitely needs some tweaking.
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Old 08-14-2013, 07:03 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by MalibuMafiaV View Post
Very interesting. I ask because I'm looking to get a custom tune for my custom build as well. Any ideas?. The current tune I have is ok... but it definitely needs some tweaking.
So when you say "custom tune" are you talking about strictly using the factory ECU? If so, I know a guy in the Hollywood area that apparently tweaks them. If your talking about using a standalone, FSR motorsports does quality work.
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Old 08-14-2013, 07:22 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerguy055 View Post
The Pro 128 (good for up to 12 cylinders) Keep in mind the Pro 48 is for 4 cylinders. I want to help out the bmw community, unlike some whom hold the knowledge for profit or personal reasons I encourage modding.



Matt,

In respect of the patch harness, I meant when one acquires the M3 harness, then slightly modifying it to non-M spec (hence patch harness). Now the MS54 DME uses the same connectors, In-fact the ONLY difference is of 5 pins (according to ProEFI's pinout sheet) they are:
- camshaft position sensor input (missing from m3 harness)
- crankshaft position sensor (M3 only, non-M doesn't have one)
- knock sensor #1 + 3 return (missing from m3 harness)
- Cam sync Relay control output (M3 only)

Keep in mind this is just how Jason configured it. He left the VANOS to be controlled by the DME. Now you can use Pro EFI to take control of it, but honestly There would be little reason unless your anal, and want to potentially squeeze ever last HP out of the engine (like if your doing a high HP build)

Now about MS45, Yes I'm sure it has very slightly different pinouts, but the critical sensors/input/outputs are the same that can be verified on HERE Also, I'm not sure exactly if the 330 jason tested used a MS45 or MS43 DME, as my CAN bus had to be reverse-engineered so ProEFI can talk to the car's sensors.

I'd say the car ran well with the DME running the ICV, but the idle would be sporadic, as the DME and the EMS were fighting each other. Keep in-mind the only thing ProEFI is actually controlling is ICV, injectors, and ignition (right now at least) I removed the MAF for two reasons: oil from the turbo got in charge pipe, then got on the MAF and u know that causes the MAF to act up. 2ndly, The MAF housing is crappy to hold boost, in fact I had to separate the actual sensor from the house (since it leaked under boost) then the housing would pop off over 10lbs of boost. I didnt want to clamp down on a plastic housing to much to break it, so the hell with it. Speed density was attractive due to eliminating the restrictive MAF ( screens in-side) plus those other 2 reasons I just mentioned.

As it sits drivability is decent, but I'm very curious how it behaves with the MAF simulator, plus I continue to tweak the tune until I'm satisfied.

Startup takes just slightly longer than stock, but not a big deal.

Iboost control is not working on my car via cruise control buttons. Thats one of the things That I was thinking of tackling on. I have to reverse-engineer the CAN signals to get the correct address, Yes it can be figured out, but I'm not sure if its worth my time to get the data then figure out the pattern to an address for Jason to code it.

I just keep my boost at one setpoint. Though it would be nice to change boost targets, its just a "plus"
Crank position sensor is:
3 E Signal Crankshaft sensor Crankshaft sensor on connector X60003. I think I found that from some online version of WDS.

As for VANOS, yes, for most of us, VANOS works fine out of the box. Who did the CAN work, and do you know how it was done?

I thought about the idle issue, and it makes sense. If one unit is using spark to control idle (ProEFI) and the other is using air to control idle (DME), they're going to try and keep compensating for each other's changes, plus the engine's changes.

A vid of starting it up would be awesome. I've seen vids of the M3 startups, and it's not very cool.

Definitely let us know how the MAF simulator holds up. It may make things even better for you. I have not found the MAF to be a restriction at this point, and I think it'll be ok for my goals, but we're going at it from two different paths.

Have you run it on E85 yet?

-Matt
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Old 08-14-2013, 09:12 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdrobnak View Post
Crank position sensor is:
3 E Signal Crankshaft sensor Crankshaft sensor on connector X60003. I think I found that from some online version of WDS.

As for VANOS, yes, for most of us, VANOS works fine out of the box. Who did the CAN work, and do you know how it was done?

I thought about the idle issue, and it makes sense. If one unit is using spark to control idle (ProEFI) and the other is using air to control idle (DME), they're going to try and keep compensating for each other's changes, plus the engine's changes.

A vid of starting it up would be awesome. I've seen vids of the M3 startups, and it's not very cool.

Definitely let us know how the MAF simulator holds up. It may make things even better for you. I have not found the MAF to be a restriction at this point, and I think it'll be ok for my goals, but we're going at it from two different paths.

Have you run it on E85 yet?

-Matt

It was a join effort with the local tuner and Jason @ ProEFI. I have to ask what tool he used. I have a understanding on how to decipher the CAN, but I havent had a need. If you want more info here is a guy whom started to do just that.

I'll post a video for startup, cold start or hot start? my cold start im still working on.

I have not ran e85 two reasons:
- I have the basic "kit" that does not come with the CAN display or flex fuel sensor
- I have no need, since I'm already pushing what the stock internals to the limits with no knock at all: they key is to run higher boost and less timing.
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Old 08-15-2013, 09:08 AM   #57
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Hot start would be good. Cold will probably get faster with the simulator set up.

As for E85, I get it, but its one of the main things that makes the unit useful to me, that's why I asked.

-Matt

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Old 08-15-2013, 04:16 PM   #58
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So when you say "custom tune" are you talking about strictly using the factory ECU? If so, I know a guy in the Hollywood area that apparently tweaks them. If your talking about using a standalone, FSR motorsports does quality work.
Using the stock ECU yes. Please forward the info on the person you know. I'd love to talk to them about what I'm trying to do.
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Old 08-16-2013, 05:08 PM   #59
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Using the stock ECU yes. Please forward the info on the person you know. I'd love to talk to them about what I'm trying to do.
Ecutuninggroup.com Jag is his name.
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Old 08-16-2013, 05:14 PM   #60
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Ecutuninggroup.com Jag is his name.
Thanks Ill contact them and see whats up.
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