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Old 06-27-2013, 12:36 AM   #81
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20% at least, it's the standard now. As a former waiter now part time bartender myself (second job) we make $2.13 an hour, we half to tip out a percentage of our SALES, not tips, to busers, restaurant, etc.. So a large tab tipped poorly, the server could end up OWING money, instead of making money.

If you can't afford to tip, don't eat out. Most servers are in that profession because they are paying their way through school, supplement to income, etc.. Not because they are uneducated servants.

Also, before you tip poorly because you are thinking you are getting poor service, pay attention to how much the server is taking on, if you notice them busting their ass between tables, obviously they haven't forgotten about you, they are probably in the weeds and trying the best they can. If they are sitting around, talking to other servers, that warrants a poor tip.

All I'm saying, is think twice before you get pissed at your server and tip poorly, lots of times things are out of their control and they do their best to wait on you. They live off tips, I remember a time when I would box up left overs just to eat, and lots of them are in the same position. They aren't waiting tables because they like it, it's just better than working at a minimum wage job.
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The words "too fvcking busy" should never come out of a serviceperson's mouth. You're too busy to give me the service I deserve as a paying customer of your establishment? Sorry, I'm too busy to calculate any percentage of my bill.
This^^

Why should I have to look at what the sever has to handle...so because I came at a busy time and it's to much for you the handle and I should be okay with sub standard service? Did me coming in for dinner inconvenience you and over work you for the day? Everything is you listed is your problem, not mine, why would you extra a standard tip when standard service wasn't given? Because it's the norm?
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Old 06-27-2013, 12:52 AM   #82
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USA needs to get rid of tips IMO

great piece on NPR

just increase the food prices.
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Old 06-27-2013, 01:02 AM   #83
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USA needs to get rid of tips IMO

great piece on NPR

just increase the food prices.
how many places would actually pass the extra income down to the employees?
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Old 06-27-2013, 01:54 AM   #84
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This thread has gone far too long without the obligatory scene from Reservoir Dogs.


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b/c of lobbying, the minimum wage for food service workers is spectacularly low, which is why it is imperative to either tip a decent amount or eat at home

http://www.dol.gov/whd/state/tipped.htm
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Old 06-27-2013, 07:23 AM   #85
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That employee at McDonald's probably gets just as much abuse if not more than your average sit-down restaurant waiter but they're not frothing at the mouth when they don't make more than minimum wage.
As soon as McDonalds employees start...

-Seating my party
-Taking and retrieving our drink orders
-Taking and retrieving our meals
-Clearing our table
-Suggesting something else

...in the same fashion as a sit down restaurant, then they can start getting tips.

Do I really need to expand on the differences between a restaurant and a fast food restaurant? Do you not see the inherent, obvious differences? I generally don't tip when I order carry out, so why would someone do the same if they had the misfortune of going to McDonalds?
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Old 06-27-2013, 08:26 AM   #86
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how much do you generally tip at restaurants?

Worked as a waiter and know it's a tough gig... So 20% unless they are great or horrible... Adjust accordingly from there


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Old 06-27-2013, 09:15 AM   #87
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b/c of lobbying, the minimum wage for food service workers is spectacularly low, which is why it is imperative to either tip a decent amount or eat at home

http://www.dol.gov/whd/state/tipped.htm
Federal labor laws require that if a server does not make over the regular minimum wage via tips, then the restaurant employer has to cover the difference.

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As soon as McDonalds employees start...

-Seating my party
-Taking and retrieving our drink orders
-Taking and retrieving our meals
-Clearing our table
-Suggesting something else

...in the same fashion as a sit down restaurant, then they can start getting tips.

Do I really need to expand on the differences between a restaurant and a fast food restaurant? Do you not see the inherent, obvious differences? I generally don't tip when I order carry out, so why would someone do the same if they had the misfortune of going to McDonalds?
You're just listing a bunch of activities that fall under the category of spectacularly unskilled labor. Nothing there suggests that waiters should be inherently better paid than fast food workers.
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Old 06-27-2013, 09:43 AM   #88
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They got a job where their primary source of income relies on the generosity of other people and the enforcement of certain social norms. They shouldn't be surprised when some people stiff them on tips.

The biggest variable in determining the average waiter's pay is the restaurant they work in and the clientele that frequent that establishment. You could be the best waiter in the world but if you live in Bum****, Alabama in a community that doesn't believe in tipping, you best believe you're gonna make minimum wage (or less if the restaurant owner tries to stiff you).

I've had it with entitled waiters who expect to get tipped and tipped well. It's the biggest #whitepersonproblem ever.
You have had it with entitled waiters? What kind of restaurants do you go to where you have a waiter who expresses how entitled he feels to be tipped? Do you tip them a small percentage and then they approach you and complain that you didn't pay them enough? Save your feelings for this one, you sound bitter and are using your emotions to justify maybe not leaving a tip.

Lets get right down to the the facts of this matter, because at the end of the day, I can assure you tipping 15% or whatever is much more worth your while than plan B.

If everyone took your stance, or whoever's stance, on feeling that they shouldn't tip, this is what would happen. Waiters/bartenders/etc... the entire front of the house, would be FAR less inclined to work in the restaurant business because they know they are going to work their asses off for a few bucks an hour. They will drop like flies, every single one. What do you think that is going to cause for restaurant owners? Depending on the demand of what people usually make, they are going to have to start paying waiters upwards of $15-$20 an hour because that is what waiters make.

Take a guess what that would do to their menu prices? Come on now, you are smart... we have the lesser of two evils if you ask me. Tipping has always been socially acceptable. I try to understand everyone's point of view with this, but to sit there (not you, this is more general) and say "well you know what you are getting paid, deal with it, I'm not tipping you" is probably the most pretentious, prick, cocky, and cheap thing anyone could do, on top of arrogance and ignorance as well. If the service sucks, completely different story, but if you have a pleasant meal, the waiter should be compensated for that.

What most people don't know it... to be a good waiter, you actually have to be relatively smart. All you white collar pencil pushers have a high expectation of the inferior servers of todays society, but what makes a good waiter is a number of admirable traits like intelligence, common sense (which no one seems to have nowadays,) timing, and a level of awareness capable of keeping up with multiple tables at a time. It is a very fast pace business and when you are client facing, guess what... sh*t can go down real fast. I can assure you that any decent waiter out there, or exceptional waiter... is far more intelligent overall than say, your typical personal banker.
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Old 06-27-2013, 09:51 AM   #89
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You're just listing a bunch of activities that fall under the category of spectacularly unskilled labor. Nothing there suggests that waiters should be inherently better paid than fast food workers.
And once again, I'll repeat again. Go be a waiter, then you can defend this statement. I'm not saying you need to be a genius to be a waiter, but a good waiter at a halfway decent restaurant is much more intelligent, both book and street smart than your average person.

Your ignorance proves that you have no clue what it is like to juggle multiple tables at once. Multi-tasking and mentally being on top of all of your tables at the same time, in a full house on a Saturday night, keeping up with your busboys, food runners, kitchen staff, and bar. Seriously, please do not discredit waiters as a whole... if you have never done it, you don't know what goes into it. Just because you don't have to get an education to be a waiter doesn't mean that it is an easy job. There are problems every night in restaurants, and a good waiter will be able to adjust calmly and accordingly to make your night at the dinner table seamless. As far as fast food... they click a screen and then they give you your food... that does not take any certain skill set.
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Old 06-27-2013, 10:00 AM   #90
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Not really going to argue the tipping thing, I've done it in 56 other threads, but I will say this...nowhere else in the world do you get service like you get in the US UNLESS they adopted the US policy of tipping. If you don't know what I'm talking about, then you have never had real, proper service. In Europe, it's either stuck up annoying 3 michelin star service, or sh!t service where I'm surprised they don't throw food in your face. I prefer my waiters to be knowledgable, accommodating, knowing exactly what to say and when, know how to pick up on ANY negativity immediately, be comical, actively attempt to IMPROVE your night, etc. Any waiter that I have personally trained would provide all of the above. 90% of waiters however do not fall into that category. I will agree, that the majority of the industry has stopped trying and now expect to get tipped just because a job was done. They don't do most things that are designed to improve the experience of the guest.
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Old 06-27-2013, 10:01 AM   #91
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This^^

Why should I have to look at what the sever has to handle...so because I came at a busy time and it's to much for you the handle and I should be okay with sub standard service? Did me coming in for dinner inconvenience you and over work you for the day? Everything is you listed is your problem, not mine, why would you extra a standard tip when standard service wasn't given? Because it's the norm?
Agreed with this... it should be up to the restaurant manager to decide how many tables at once can be given to particular waiters. If you are running around like a maniac and you can't keep up, you either need less tables, or you need to get your sh*t together.

In addition, sometimes kitchen problems cause the problem. Easy fix to this... communicate to your table rather than keeping them waiting, 100% of the time they will initially blame it on the waiter, so be proactive and talk to your customers. If it is busy and i get poor servie, I am a little understanding but that doesn't matter... if i tip less, thats fine... they will make up for it by having too many tables I guess...
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Old 06-27-2013, 10:10 AM   #92
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Agreed with this... it should be up to the restaurant manager to decide how many tables at once can be given to particular waiters. If you are running around like a maniac and you can't keep up, you either need less tables, or you need to get your sh*t together.

In addition, sometimes kitchen problems cause the problem. Easy fix to this... communicate to your table rather than keeping them waiting, 100% of the time they will initially blame it on the waiter, so be proactive and talk to your customers. If it is busy and i get poor servie, I am a little understanding but that doesn't matter... if i tip less, thats fine... they will make up for it by having too many tables I guess...
Correct. If the waiter is slammed and isn't able to give the proper service, that's the job of the manager to fix. The manager needs to either help out, pull another waiter to help, etc. Most restaurant managers that I have come across are worthless. One of the most overlooked and important jobs in a restaurant is the hostess. The hostess can completely screw over the entire restaurant with her doings. She can destroy a kitchen, the bar, the flow on the floor, the service, etc. Sometimes I have come across idiot waiters that try and make things easier for themselves, but in turn, slam the rest of the staff. For example, a waiter gets seated 5 new tables. Happens all the time in a busy NYC joint. The waiter will try and "provide good service" by getting to all the tables ASAP, taking ALL the orders, and puts them all in at the same time. This screws the kitchen, and the service bar. I train my waiters how to deal with situations like this, how to stall customers in a polite and "unaffecting" manner, etc. It all starts from the top.
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Old 06-27-2013, 10:17 AM   #93
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Not really going to argue the tipping thing, I've done it in 56 other threads, but I will say this...nowhere else in the world do you get service like you get in the US UNLESS they adopted the US policy of tipping. If you don't know what I'm talking about, then you have never had real, proper service. In Europe, it's either stuck up annoying 3 michelin star service, or sh!t service where I'm surprised they don't throw food in your face. I prefer my waiters to be knowledgable, accommodating, knowing exactly what to say and when, know how to pick up on ANY negativity immediately, be comical, actively attempt to IMPROVE your night, etc. Any waiter that I have personally trained would provide all of the above. 90% of waiters however do not fall into that category. I will agree, that the majority of the industry has stopped trying and now expect to get tipped just because a job was done. They don't do most things that are designed to improve the experience of the guest.
I agree with everything that you say, however... unfortunately most people just go out to dinner to eat. Unlike you and me, they don't look for an experience to remember, exceptional service, and food that has talent written all over it. While there is nothing wrong with it, these are the ones who are ignorant to recognizing a really good experience. It is viewed at the most basic rationalization possible... they are brining me food and drinks, big deal.

Its sort of a shame, but at the end of the day, not everyone appreciates good restaurants, and we can't expect everyone to have the same viewpoint as us I guess.

I would love to see the people who complain about tipping, complain about their food prices if we abolished tipping. That would be a real treat to see
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Old 06-27-2013, 10:21 AM   #94
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Not really going to argue the tipping thing, I've done it in 56 other threads, but I will say this...nowhere else in the world do you get service like you get in the US UNLESS they adopted the US policy of tipping. If you don't know what I'm talking about, then you have never had real, proper service. In Europe, it's either stuck up annoying 3 michelin star service, or sh!t service where I'm surprised they don't throw food in your face. I prefer my waiters to be knowledgable, accommodating, knowing exactly what to say and when, know how to pick up on ANY negativity immediately, be comical, actively attempt to IMPROVE your night, etc. Any waiter that I have personally trained would provide all of the above. 90% of waiters however do not fall into that category. I will agree, that the majority of the industry has stopped trying and now expect to get tipped just because a job was done. They don't do most things that are designed to improve the experience of the guest.
go to any country where tipping isn't customary and the waiters and bartenders usually suck.
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Old 06-27-2013, 10:26 AM   #95
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I agree with everything that you say, however... unfortunately most people just go out to dinner to eat. Unlike you and me, they don't look for an experience to remember, exceptional service, and food that has talent written all over it. While there is nothing wrong with it, these are the ones who are ignorant to recognizing a really good experience. It is viewed at the most basic rationalization possible... they are brining me food and drinks, big deal.

Its sort of a shame, but at the end of the day, not everyone appreciates good restaurants, and we can't expect everyone to have the same viewpoint as us I guess.

I would love to see the people who complain about tipping, complain about their food prices if we abolished tipping. That would be a real treat to see
Agree, but there is one detail you overlooked. If you and your friends just want to go grab a bite, you are not "looking for an experience" as you say. However, if food comes out cold, waitress takes forever, order is wrong, etc, your "experience that you are not looking for" is ruined....which proves that even when you are not looking for an "experience" subconsciously you are, because you are annoyed when things go wrong. What you are describing is transparent service....service that you do not notice at all is actually good service. It lets you enjoy your evening without intruding in any meaningful way. Some waiters will have the ability to IMPROVE your evening, and that's when most people would call it "exceptional service." That 3 michelin star crap is annoying as hell to me. It's like flies at a summer BBQ, they (10 people) are constantly crumbing, explaining, refilling, etc etc etc. Leave me the f*** alone people! People that say "you are bringing me food and drinks big deal" have obviously never had a truly terrible experience to exemplify how bad service can ruin your night....especially when you have to pay for that experience.

I also get extremely annoyed when a manager comes over (called cruising the tables) and starts asking how everything was. Always a sign of an insecure/inept manager, and a restaurant insecure of their food. Let your waitstaff deal with the tables, and if there is an issue (good or bad) I will request the manager to come over.
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Old 06-27-2013, 10:31 AM   #96
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I treat the waiter with respect and pay what the meal is worth. I rarely tip unless the waitress really worked for it more than just keeping my drink full, If i feel the meal was really good I ask to see the chef and tip him, The waitress only brought me my food and in most cases for me brought me one iced tea. I dont see why they deserve one when they are getting a wage for it
Depending on what kind of restaurant you attend, I believe that it is unacceptable to not leave a tip for your waiter. Sure, they keep your drink filled but at the restaurant where I work, the servers are constantly checking on the status of food, making sure that orders were put in correctly, and typically trying to make you as comfortable as possible. When you're gone, the servers are the ones who have to sweep the floor under your table where all of your mess is. Also, you need to keep in mind that when you don't tip, it isn't only the waiter/waitress that you're not tipping. The busboys also get a percentage of tips, and they are the ones who roll your silverware, carry your food (in many cases,) and do all of the dirty work at the end of the night (I.e. taking out the trash, cleaning the bathrooms, folding chairs, etc.) Don't forget that we have very difficult schedules, and many people who work in restaurants don't even get home until mid-night, and then have school in the morning. People in the restaurant business (including myself) depend on tips. Hopefully you will re-consider the next time you decide not to leave a tip.
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Old 06-27-2013, 10:34 AM   #97
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Depending on what kind of restaurant you attend, I believe that it is unacceptable to not leave a tip for your waiter. Sure, they keep your drink filled but at the restaurant where I work, the servers are constantly checking on the status of food, making sure that orders were put in correctly, and typically trying to make you as comfortable as possible. When you're gone, the servers are the ones who have to sweep the floor under your table where all of your mess is. Also, you need to keep in mind that when you don't tip, it isn't only the waiter/waitress that you're not tipping. The busboys also get a percentage of tips, and they are the ones who roll your silverware, carry your food (in many cases,) and do all of the dirty work at the end of the night (I.e. taking out the trash, cleaning the bathrooms, folding chairs, etc.) Don't forget that we have very difficult schedules, and many people who work in restaurants don't even get home until mid-night, and then have school in the morning. People in the restaurant business (including myself) depend on tips. Hopefully you will re-consider the next time you decide not to leave a tip.
**flipping chairs
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Old 06-27-2013, 10:40 AM   #98
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Depending on what kind of restaurant you attend, I believe that it is unacceptable to not leave a tip for your waiter. Sure, they keep your drink filled but at the restaurant where I work, the servers are constantly checking on the status of food, making sure that orders were put in correctly, and typically trying to make you as comfortable as possible. When you're gone, the servers are the ones who have to sweep the floor under your table where all of your mess is. Also, you need to keep in mind that when you don't tip, it isn't only the waiter/waitress that you're not tipping. The busboys also get a percentage of tips, and they are the ones who roll your silverware, carry your food (in many cases,) and do all of the dirty work at the end of the night (I.e. taking out the trash, cleaning the bathrooms, folding chairs, etc.) Don't forget that we have very difficult schedules, and many people who work in restaurants don't even get home until mid-night, and then have school in the morning. People in the restaurant business (including myself) depend on tips. Hopefully you will re-consider the next time you decide not to leave a tip.
One thing I have learned from Marco Pierre White (actually, one of the many things I've learned...)...my waiters are trained to tell me when there is a true a$$hole customer. They know my definition of a$$hole is, so they don't bother me when a customer just says something stupid or sends coffee back when it isn't hot enough. Waiters are NEVER EVER supposed to deal with confrontation. So, when I get a report of a REAL a$$hole customer, I verify with some situational questions, and if I deem they are indeed a$$holes, I ask them to leave. Before they make it out the door, I say "please make sure you tell your friends."

This improves service on a number of ways. I keep unruly and unreasonable guests out. I have a loyal staff that trusts me, because they know I have their back 110% (something that is EXTREMELY rare)...and that no matter what (with the exception of very very rare cases) I am on their side. This keeps their confidence level up, and the 95% of customers that are not a$$holes receive a much more pleasant experience. Many restaurants/managers are scared to throw people out. What they fail to realize that in ANY business, it is impossible to satisfy everyone. As for the badmouthing, you would rather have people badmouthing you because you threw them out rather than badmouthing the food/service. Obviously, this has to be done with skill and tact (not like Amy's Baking Company).
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Old 06-27-2013, 11:29 AM   #99
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None because I live in London right now
I loved this part. I just rounded up to the nearest dollar, unless service was exceptional (which was rare for London).
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Old 06-27-2013, 11:35 AM   #100
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I never had NY quality service...or even NEAR that in London. I haven't been back there for a few years, and maybe things have changed, but generally I found service in Europe to be pretty poor when compared to the American standard we have all grown accustomed to....it's not only restaurants BTW. The US is king when it comes to customer service and services in general. Even in places like Japan, while things are very very meticulous and proper, it's not what us American's would call "warm."
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