E46 BMW Social Directory E46 FAQ 3-Series Discussion Forums BMW Photo Gallery BMW 3-Series Technical Information E46 Fanatics - The Ultimate BMW Resource BMW Vendors General E46 Forum The Tire Rack's Tire Wheel Forum Forced Induction Forum The Off-Topic The E46 BMW Showroom For Sale, For Trade or Wanting to Buy

Welcome to the E46Fanatics forums. E46Fanatics is the premiere website for BMW 3 series owners around the world with interactive forums, a geographical enthusiast directory, photo galleries, and technical information for BMW enthusiasts.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Go Back   E46Fanatics > Tuning & Tech > Motorsports & Track Forum

Motorsports & Track Forum
From Auto-X to Trackday to Racing and Professional Motorsports this is the place to discuss making BMWs fast

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rating: Thread Rating: 1 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
Old 06-26-2013, 03:09 AM   #1
yournickname
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: RU, Moscow
Posts: 13
My Ride: Skoda =)
E46 as track tool

Hi there.

First of all I'd like to bring my apologies and say SORRY for my noob questions but this is only way to gain some expirience in this question.

I'm looking for a cheap car for trackdays and participating in local championships. My opinion is that BMW E46 320 - best way to spend some free cash Due to regulations of our local championship I have some restrictions to meet class requirements. These restrictions are:
1. Non-turbo gasoline engine with volume not more than 2.2l.
2. Weight - not lighter than 1030 kg with roll cage (some restrictions here also).
3. Any intake modification with using nitro, methanol, etc ex. water.

So I can modify engine almost as far as I can with these regulations
And here becomes my main question: what is better for use on race track - m52b20 or m54b22? p54b20 will be better for sure but we are talking about cheap track days car

Which engine frome this couple has better "race performance" if these words are acceptable for these engines?
Which engine has more tuning parts to choose from?
Which engine is cheaper to tune and maintain?

This is first part of questions to understand what exactly I want to buy.

Thanks for answers
yournickname is offline   Reply With Quote
Ads by Google

Guests, get your FREE E46Fanatics.com membership to remove this ad.
Old 06-26-2013, 05:49 AM   #2
inlinesicks
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 1,142
My Ride: E46, Jeep, Subaru
No idea. We don't have 4 cylinder E46's here.
__________________
inlinesicks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2013, 05:55 AM   #3
yournickname
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: RU, Moscow
Posts: 13
My Ride: Skoda =)
Quote:
Originally Posted by inlinesicks View Post
No idea. We don't have 4 cylinder E46's here.
m52b20 or m54b22 are both 6 cylinder type engines.
yournickname is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2013, 06:16 AM   #4
inlinesicks
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 1,142
My Ride: E46, Jeep, Subaru
Quote:
Originally Posted by yournickname View Post
m52b20 or m54b22 are both 6 cylinder type engines.
Oh sorry, I thought with the small displacement they must be 4 cylinders. Shows how much I know
__________________
inlinesicks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2013, 12:59 PM   #5
jcns
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: California
Posts: 1,573
My Ride: California
I think a better option is the e36 chassis if available in your area with the displacement you need.
e36's are much lighter and if I am correct, they also come with limited slip differentials. e46's did not come with limited slip diffs, unless you go the m3.
jcns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2013, 04:36 PM   #6
Elvin123
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NYC
Posts: 614
My Ride: 328i
buy a miata
__________________
Elvin123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 02:55 AM   #7
yournickname
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: RU, Moscow
Posts: 13
My Ride: Skoda =)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcns View Post
I think a better option is the e36 chassis if available in your area with the displacement you need.
e36's are much lighter and if I am correct, they also come with limited slip differentials. e46's did not come with limited slip diffs, unless you go the m3.
I wanted to buy 2way LSD anyway. And it's really hard to find e36 body in good condition. Unfortunately we have no roads, terrible weather for rusting etc...

Last edited by yournickname; 06-27-2013 at 03:02 AM.
yournickname is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 02:56 AM   #8
yournickname
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: RU, Moscow
Posts: 13
My Ride: Skoda =)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvin123 View Post
buy a miata
you wouldn't belive but miata is much more expensive in our country than e46 =)
yournickname is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 03:23 AM   #9
mkodama
Registered User
 
mkodama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 33,172
Get an M54B22. It's the biggest you're allowed, and the entire M54 range are really good reliable engines. Just make sure to replace anything old and plastic, and make sure the oil pump nut is tight. Leave it stock, other than the exhaust and a quick tune through the OBD2 port.

Your money is likely better spent on suspension and getting down to the minimum weight, which is a LOT of weight to remove, and that part will be very hard and expensive but will have the biggest returns.

What kind of cars are you competing against?
__________________

mkodama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 04:06 AM   #10
yournickname
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: RU, Moscow
Posts: 13
My Ride: Skoda =)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkodama View Post
Get an M54B22. It's the biggest you're allowed, and the entire M54 range are really good reliable engines. Just make sure to replace anything old and plastic, and make sure the oil pump nut is tight. Leave it stock, other than the exhaust and a quick tune through the OBD2 port.

Your money is likely better spent on suspension and getting down to the minimum weight, which is a LOT of weight to remove, and that part will be very hard and expensive but will have the biggest returns.

What kind of cars are you competing against?
Against Renault Clio RS (ver. II), Skoda Fabia RS, All VAG cars with 1.8T engines and some really good prepared russian Lada if you have heard about this brand

Thanks for advice! What about VANOS system? Should I remove VANOS or it'll be better to use it?

Last edited by yournickname; 06-27-2013 at 04:07 AM.
yournickname is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 04:51 AM   #11
mkodama
Registered User
 
mkodama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 33,172
Quote:
Originally Posted by yournickname View Post
Against Renault Clio RS (ver. II), Skoda Fabia RS, All VAG cars with 1.8T engines and some really good prepared russian Lada if you have heard about this brand

Thanks for advice! What about VANOS system? Should I remove VANOS or it'll be better to use it?
Leave the VANOS unless you are heavily modifying the engine. Your ECU will be happy and make the most power if everything is in the right place and working properly, that is, until you are running something other than the stock ECU. You will also get more mid range torque and power if you leave VANOS in, which I think you will need with a 2.2 liter naturally aspirated engine.

EDIT: That's some tough competition, you need to take a lot of weight off that E46.
__________________


Last edited by mkodama; 06-27-2013 at 05:03 AM.
mkodama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 04:59 AM   #12
Patton323I
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Savannah, GA
Posts: 1,009
My Ride: R1100GS E46 E53
Try and strap on some ITB's on that bad boy! (independent throttle bodies) You can get a set off an M3 for not to much money. Will of course require some modifications to work correctly.

In mother Russia, you don't race track, track races you!

**Edit**

Sorry I had to throw this in too lol!
__________________

Last edited by Patton323I; 06-27-2013 at 05:06 AM. Reason: Russian dancing men!
Patton323I is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 06:20 AM   #13
yournickname
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: RU, Moscow
Posts: 13
My Ride: Skoda =)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patton323I View Post
Try and strap on some ITB's on that bad boy! (independent throttle bodies) You can get a set off an M3 for not to much money. Will of course require some modifications to work correctly.

In mother Russia, you don't race track, track races you!

**Edit**

Sorry I had to throw this in too lol!
thanks, funny

About ITB: it's really nice idea and this is allowed powerup in this championship but could you please give link where to buy ready kit? Or there're no ITB kits and I should customize it by myself? Also here goes question about ECU. Does stock ECU can be modified or I should buy new ECU like MOTEC or smt?
yournickname is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 08:04 AM   #14
B78SYX
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Romania, Europe
Posts: 533
My Ride: 325CI 2004
@yournickname, you should not be so scared of your competition. However, proper RWD driving skills will be required and you should also focus on the proper tire grip. Less weight and more power will mean nothing, if you will have improper grip, even with an LSD. That means also to carefully choose your tires and design your weight distribution properly.

The rest, as you want also to keep your costs low, focus on keeping your car in top shape, mechanically....proper lubricant for the track environment, check your clutch efficiency etc.

I also have a rethorical question..more as a curiosity...would the DME/ECU prevent you of having your engine running, if you remove your electrical starter? I know that, if the starter fails, you can still start your car, by pushing it. I wonder if you can just remove it completely (it will save over 5kg of weight), while using just a small battery (again, to save weight) as the entire electricity requirements would be covered by the alternator, while starting the car by being pushed and keep it running, during the entire track time. Let's not forget rally cars (or at least formula 1 cars) do not have electrical starters and I think the main reason is weight saving.
Correct me if I am wrong...

Last edited by B78SYX; 06-27-2013 at 08:05 AM.
B78SYX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 12:01 PM   #15
Patton323I
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Savannah, GA
Posts: 1,009
My Ride: R1100GS E46 E53
Here you go. I have pondered this before I decided to do an engine swap. It looks to be direct bolt on.

http://www.dbilas-shop.com/Products/...-M52::213.html
__________________
Patton323I is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 12:26 PM   #16
Knight
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NNJ
Posts: 1,994
My Ride: German
Don't forget suspension and brakes.

Last edited by Knight; 06-27-2013 at 12:26 PM.
Knight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 04:22 PM   #17
Alex323Ci
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Huntington Beach -Surf City USA
Posts: 17,549
My Ride: M3 & 323Ci (sold)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patton323I View Post
Try and strap on some ITB's on that bad boy! (independent throttle bodies) You can get a set off an M3 for not to much money. Will of course require some modifications to work correctly.
just a heads-up, it stands for "INDIVIDUAL" Throttle Bodies. not "independent"
__________________
OE CSL WHEELS - OE CSL BRAKES - OE AUTOFLD MIRRORS - CSL TRUNK - CSL DIFFUSER - AA TUNE - AA PULLEYS - AS 40% SSK - BILSTEIN PSS9s
CF CSL LIP - NAVI - BMWPERF CF STRUT BAR - BMW GROUP N MNTS - GRUPPE M CF INTAKE - SUPERSPRINT - UUC BRKLINES, TRANS, RTABs - H&R SWAYS - 4.10 M-SPORT DIFF
Alex323Ci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 04:25 PM   #18
Mango
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Southern California
Posts: 23,226
My Ride: M54B30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex323Ci View Post
just a heads-up, it stands for "INDIVIDUAL" Throttle Bodies. not "independent"
__________________
A lifetime free of problems if you follow my guides
Cooling | Maintenance | Suspension | Vacuum | Supreme Reliability | Details

OVER A MILLION VIEWS
Mango is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 04:38 PM   #19
Patton323I
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Savannah, GA
Posts: 1,009
My Ride: R1100GS E46 E53
Tomato, To-mah-toe. It basically means the same damn thing. Individual, Independent, whatever... Grammar Nazis.

I'll stick with my way...

Also the meaning of it still makes sense either way. For instance: I have 6 independent throttle bodies. OR: I have 6 individual throttle bodies. The meaning is still the same. However, the meaning is not the same when you change the word Individual or Independent for say, Ice.
For example: I have 6 Ice Throttle Bodies. That simply makes no sense at all. Unless of course you literally mean that the throttle bodies are in fact made from ice.
__________________

Last edited by Patton323I; 06-27-2013 at 04:48 PM.
Patton323I is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 04:49 PM   #20
Mango
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Southern California
Posts: 23,226
My Ride: M54B30
But they aren't independent as they are grouped together. They're individual in that there's six individual units as opposed to one throttle unit. Alex owns an M3. I'll believe him!
__________________
A lifetime free of problems if you follow my guides
Cooling | Maintenance | Suspension | Vacuum | Supreme Reliability | Details

OVER A MILLION VIEWS
Mango is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
race, track days

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Censor is ON





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:36 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
(c) 1999 - 2011 performanceIX Inc - privacy policy - terms of use