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Old 06-26-2013, 04:19 PM   #1
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USSC, DOMA, & Prop 8...opinions....

Not that surprising, all points considered. But, a good day all around.

Would have liked to see them actually rule on the body of the Prop 8 case, rather than ducking it by ruling on the standing. But, for Cali the end result is the same. They could have allowed the standing and ruled on the case, given some of the info from the dissenting opinions. But, it was clear they wanted to dodge the case as much as possible.

DOMA was finally kicked off the books. Violations of the 5th and 14th amd. Reading Scalia's dissent, you can just picture the veins in his forehead ready to burst. He sounded like a 7 year old who had just gotten his candy taken away. A bit of judicial tantrum throwing. While I don't agree with Alito & Thomas at least they were civil and rational in their dissent.

Alito sort of defeated a good portion of his own argument. Arguing that same-sex marriage could not be considered because it hadn't been around long enough and was not any societal norm for centuries and this view had only come about quite recently. Especially historically speaking. However, he completely ignored that this same rational applied to inter-racial marriage 50 years ago when the court ruled in Loving vs Virginia.

Scalia went so far as to argue that DOMA was put in place to prohibit the issues of equality that will arise no that it is gone. The example: If a same sex couple is married in NY, then moves to Alabama. What happens. The federal govt now recognizes that they are a married couple. They were a married couple in NY, are they still a married couple in Alabama? In every state in the union under DOMA, an opposite sex couple married in NY was still married if they moved to Alabama. Now this is not the case with a same-sex married couple. That is legal action waiting to happen.

Scalia is right about that. It is Pandora's box. It is why federal DOMA was put on the books. To prevent just this sort of thing. But, it is also hard to hide from the fact that by doing so, it specifically singles out a specific group of legally married people for unequal treatment under the law.

Since virtually all state DOMA statues started to get on the books after the federal DOMA went on in Sept. 96. It will be interesting to see how the state legislative landscape changes. With a 12 states (now including Cali) that directly allow same-sex marriage, and RI which recognizes, same-sex marriages performed in other states. I'd wager that the USSC is hoping a number of other states follow suit before they get their next same-sex marriage related case.
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Old 06-26-2013, 04:26 PM   #2
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Old 06-26-2013, 04:46 PM   #3
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Words fail me when aggregations of people think that the private lives of others has anything to do with them whatsoever. It's moral bankruptcy of the highest order. Good for the US today.
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Old 06-26-2013, 05:00 PM   #4
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I can't honestly say that I give a fvck about the ruling. It could have stayed the same for the next hundred years and I wouldn't care....same if it changed today...also don't care.
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Old 06-26-2013, 05:54 PM   #5
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Re: USSC, DOMA, & Prop 8...opinions....

Redsesq's analysis is a good one, IMHO, while the overall effect of today's SCOTUS ruling were good, positive and overdue, they did duck on things a bit, perhaps to deflect some of the blowback both spatially (to the states) and temporally (inevitable future cases and rulings).

In the end though, they did do a lot of the heavy lifting here (do you think Scalia would have got worked up to the point of incoherency in his dissent were these rulings not so consequential?), and essentially crafted a future legal path that almost ensures further progress.

I guess the question now is how social conservatives and their primary political representatives will react:

Essentially throw in the towel beyond some perfunctory outrage and move on to issues consonant with 21st century concerns and electorates?

Attempt some sort of revanchist efforts, ala a "DOMA" constitutional amendment? Given it was left to Louie "Goober" Gomhert to spearhead this, I think we see a lot of the answer there.

Something other that I'm missing?

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Old 06-26-2013, 05:59 PM   #6
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meh, don't care either way. I still hold that giving all these tax breaks to married people is discriminatory to those that choose to (or are forced to) remain single.
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Old 06-26-2013, 06:03 PM   #7
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I am very curious to see if the Prop 8 folks will now demand that the state officials (who declined to defend Prop 8 in court) bring suit to defend it. Since the USSC's ruling was only that the people who brought the appeal had no standing to do so, their only option left is to get an injunction to force the state Attorney General to act to protect the law. I don't see that happening, but it's really the only tactic they have left.
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Old 06-26-2013, 06:38 PM   #8
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meh, don't care either way. I still hold that giving all these tax breaks to married people is discriminatory to those that choose to (or are forced to) remain single.
If you want the tax breaks that bad you can always import a wife.
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Old 06-26-2013, 06:56 PM   #9
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If you want the tax breaks that bad you can always import a wife.
I can get married tomorrow, I just don't see the (other than tax) benefit. I'm not alone.

http://www.amazon.com/books/dp/1594036756

Good to see you only care about equality when it is a precious liberal cause.
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Old 06-26-2013, 07:00 PM   #10
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I can get married tomorrow, I just don't see the (other than tax) benefit. I'm not alone.

http://www.amazon.com/books/dp/1594036756

Good to see you only care about equality when it is a precious liberal cause.
I hope you're not taking that book to heart.
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Old 06-26-2013, 07:08 PM   #11
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meh, don't care either way. I still hold that giving all these tax breaks to married people is discriminatory to those that choose to (or are forced to) remain single.
Tax breaks on mortgage interest are discriminatory as well.

Along with most laws. A point brought up in one of the dissenting opinions in the DOMA ruling.
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Old 06-26-2013, 07:12 PM   #12
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I hope you're not taking that book to heart.
Not really, but marriage is sort of becoming a losing proposition for guys...especially ones not hell bent on having kids. Here in NY (I can only speak for here) the Court system is unbelievably biased towards women.
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Old 06-26-2013, 07:16 PM   #13
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Not really, but marriage is sort of becoming a losing proposition for guys...especially ones not hell bent on having kids. Here in NY (I can only speak for here) the Court system is unbelievably biased towards women.
In VA it's biased towards women as well. My stepfather is in shackles to my mother for quite a bit of time.
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Old 06-26-2013, 07:47 PM   #14
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In VA it's biased towards women as well. My stepfather is in shackles to my mother for quite a bit of time.
It's hilarious because women fight so hard to be equal to men, but as soon as the divorce happens they fall silent when they're treated like helpless little sub-humans.
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Old 06-26-2013, 07:51 PM   #15
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It's hilarious because women fight so hard to be equal to men, but as soon as the divorce happens they fall silent when they're treated like helpless little sub-humans.
I've seen it time and time again happen to marriages around me. Divorce just gets downright ugly.
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Old 06-26-2013, 07:59 PM   #16
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I can get married tomorrow, I just don't see the (other than tax) benefit. I'm not alone.

http://www.amazon.com/books/dp/1594036756

Good to see you only care about equality when it is a precious liberal cause.
One of the reviews from that book.

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The fact that this book is almost certain to make lefties' heads explode should alone be sufficient endorsement for all rational people to read it. That said, the book does a great job of mixing research with personal interviews to illustrate the damage done to the relationship between the sexes over the past 4-5 decades. The fact that it was written by an intelligent woman makes it fairly tough to dismiss the story as sour grapes from a burned out male.

While the book does touch on this point, it could have placed heavier emphasis on the fact that the so-called equal rights campaign very quickly devolved not into a correction of past wrongs (real or imagined), but a repeat of those wrongs, focused now in the opposite direction; revenge masquerading as equality.

The one quibble I have, albeit minor, is that early in the first portion of the book, Dr. Helen frequently uses "not growing up" and similar terminology to describe phenomena that are more accurately described later in the book as opting out or "going Galt." What society has labeled as young men's "failure to launch" or refusal to grow up is just the younger generation's own version of going Galt.

That said, the book is well-written and a fast read. It should be required reading for all males over 16 years old.
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Old 06-26-2013, 08:09 PM   #17
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Im happy for gays getting federal benefits, but also agree with AOG that the government "punishes" those that remain single. I said it before and I'll say it again, every person should have the right to have a CIVIL UNION (government should not be allowed to be involved in marriage of any kind) with ANY person, including a relative or friend. The prop8 was a punk move IMHO (but expected).
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Old 06-26-2013, 10:15 PM   #18
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"that the so-called equal rights campaign very quickly devolved not into a correction of past wrongs (real or imagined), but a repeat of those wrongs, focused now in the opposite direction; revenge masquerading as equality."

That's absolutely prolific *props*
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Old 06-26-2013, 10:25 PM   #19
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It's hilarious because women fight so hard to be equal to men, but as soon as the divorce happens they fall silent when they're treated like helpless little sub-humans.
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I've seen it time and time again happen to marriages around me. Divorce just gets downright ugly.
It is the self-interest and combative nature of humanity. Maximizing gains in a zero-sum affair leaves a loser and a winner. No one wants to be the sucker.
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Old 06-26-2013, 10:27 PM   #20
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"that the so-called equal rights campaign very quickly devolved not into a correction of past wrongs (real or imagined), but a repeat of those wrongs, focused now in the opposite direction; revenge masquerading as equality."

That's absolutely prolific *props*
Certainly supports your biases and leave no question on why you think it is so prolific.
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