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Political Talk
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Old 07-01-2013, 03:34 PM   #21
NFRs2000nyc
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My wife and I didn't pay more than $1k total for all medical bills related to our kids being born and she had a c-section both times, private room, etc. I'm not complaining, but then again, I have excellent insurance.
I think the article is referring to people that are uninsured, otherwise the article makes no sense. I said it before and I say it again. Insurance in 95% of states is very reasonable. If you don't have it, don't b!tch when the bill comes. Healthcare is very expensive. BMW maintenance is extremely expensive, but people don't complain about that right?
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Old 07-01-2013, 03:36 PM   #22
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I think the article is referring to people that are uninsured, otherwise the article makes no sense. I said it before and I say it again. Insurance in 95% of states is very reasonable. If you don't have it, don't b!tch when the bill comes. Healthcare is very expensive. BMW maintenance is extremely expensive, but people don't complain about that right?
The insurance quotes you have provided in the past are a joke. And not everyone owns a BMW.
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Old 07-01-2013, 03:38 PM   #23
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Let the chest thumping begin.

Since birth is the case for discussion here. The European Union who has a population over 500 million has an infant mortality rate of 4.40 per 1,000 births while the US is at 5.9 per 1,000 births. In fact a majority of European countries boast a better rate than the US. Greece, UK, Luxembourg, Belgium, Denmark, Netherlands, Germany, Norway, France, Iceland, and Sweden are some that have better birth rates than we do (CIA Factbook). To claim we have better healthcare and higher standards than some of the countries listed is a fallacy. The US doesn't always do everything better. It can improved and other countries have great ideas that we can borrow. Pride and arrogance are act as America's blinders.
So infant mortality rate has nothing to do with Europe being a healthier land in general? Processed food? Obesity? Nothing? Just the hospital is responsible for an infant dying or living? Believe what you want to believe, but don't sell your information as fact. You are looking at average figures. What the average person gets. The FACT is, when money is no object, no country in the world can provide the level of modern medicine as the US.
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Old 07-01-2013, 03:38 PM   #24
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The insurance quotes you have provided in the past are a joke. And not everyone owns a BMW.
They are a joke because they are real? Not quite sure I understand what the hell you are banging on about.
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Old 07-01-2013, 03:39 PM   #25
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So infant mortality rate has nothing to do with Europe being a healthier land in general? Processed food? Obesity? Nothing? Just the hospital is responsible for an infant dying or living? Believe what you want to believe, but don't sell your information as fact. You are looking at average figures. What the average person gets. The FACT is, when money is no object, no country in the world can provide the level of modern medicine as the US.
The FACT is money is an object. Stop selling your fantasy world as though it is everyone's reality.
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Old 07-01-2013, 03:40 PM   #26
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The FACT is money is an object. Stop selling your fantasy world as though it is everyone's reality.
You are making the claim that the US does NOT have the best medicine in the world correct?
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Old 07-01-2013, 03:42 PM   #27
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You are making the claim that the US does NOT have the best medicine in the world correct?
We do not have the best healthcare system.
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Old 07-01-2013, 03:43 PM   #28
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We do not have the best healthcare system.
I never stated anything of the sort, so I don't know why the rustling. We have a terrible healthcare system.
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Old 07-01-2013, 03:45 PM   #29
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Still curious why you state my insurance quotes were a joke.
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Old 07-01-2013, 03:46 PM   #30
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I never stated anything of the sort, so I don't know why the rustling. We have a terrible healthcare system.

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BS. There is no country on the planet that has healthcare as good as the US provided you have the money to access the best.

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What did you mean by this then? I'll give benefit of the doubt. I am reading that as claiming the US does have the best healthcare?

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Old 07-01-2013, 03:47 PM   #31
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Still curious why you state my insurance quotes were a joke.
The deductibles were ridiculous. If a person can't afford $100 a month insurance how can they afford $8k deductibles?
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Old 07-01-2013, 03:47 PM   #32
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Let the chest thumping begin.

Since birth is the case for discussion here. The European Union who has a population over 500 million has an infant mortality rate of 4.40 per 1,000 births while the US is at 5.9 per 1,000 births. In fact a majority of European countries boast a better rate than the US. Greece, UK, Luxembourg, Belgium, Denmark, Netherlands, Germany, Norway, France, Iceland, and Sweden are some that have better birth rates than we do (CIA Factbook). To claim we have better healthcare and higher standards than some of the countries listed is a fallacy. The US doesn't always do everything better. It can improved and other countries have great ideas that we can borrow. Pride and arrogance are act as America's blinders.
You're only looking at half the story. There are SO many things that go into whether or not a baby dies:

1. Health of the mother (fat, smoker, druggie, etc.)
2. Diet of the mother
3. Environment
4. Genetics
5. Having a mother who does the right things
6. Age of the mother

All of those are independent of the health care system. Again, I have already pointed out inconsistent reporting from country to country. We can't even get countries to use the same standards. Therefore, your numbers are bunk. Mother's 15 and under have the highest rates, followed by 45+ mothers. Are Americans having babies earlier and later than elsewhere?

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5946a6.htm

Unless you can die infant mortality directly to medical care, which you can't, it is a silly statistic to look at. Extraneous factors are a drag, huh? Where's your control kid, WHERE'S YOUR CONTROL?????
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Last edited by Act of God; 07-01-2013 at 03:55 PM.
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Old 07-01-2013, 03:48 PM   #33
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Competent doctors will retire...
Doctors do tend to retire in their late 50's and 60's might retire. It's anyone's guess as to why.
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Old 07-01-2013, 03:51 PM   #34
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The deductibles were ridiculous. If a person can't afford $100 a month insurance how can they afford $8k deductibles?
Generally something that requires a serious cost is a serious surgery. You people have it in your head that medicine should be free. A heart surgery is very expensive, and 8K to save your life seems like a reasonable amount. Hospitals also work out payment plans and even lower costs for patients that truly can't afford to pay. However, you and your liberal buddies always bullsh!t your way through the medical argument.....the people that are REALLY poor, people that cant afford medicine ALREADY GET GOVERNMENT TO PAY FOR IT. The people we are talking about are the uninsured that have iphones and eat out 3 nights a week.
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Old 07-01-2013, 03:53 PM   #35
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Doctors do tend to retire in their late 50's and 60's might retire. It's anyone's guess as to why.
Sure, if you ignore the countless doctrors that spoke out about the issue, a bunch that started their own cash only private clinics, the increasing shortage, and the lower American doctor pool, then yes, it's anyone's guess.
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Old 07-01-2013, 03:53 PM   #36
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Pay cash and bill is basically reduced 50%, at least in my experience
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Old 07-01-2013, 03:53 PM   #37
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Pay cash and bill is basically reduced 50%, at least in my experience
Even less. Usually closer to 70%. Doctors that only accept cash are 80% less since they don't waste time having a staff, a billing department, stamps, etc. BTW, even hospitals will charge nearly 50% less if you pay cash.
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Old 07-01-2013, 03:56 PM   #38
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If the authors of the study don't like the cost of child birth in America, perhaps they can do it like women in sub Saharan Africa and just squat down and give birth in the dirt. Let's see how much they complain then.
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Old 07-01-2013, 03:57 PM   #39
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The ranking is an average.
True of course, trying to compare overall national health care systems.

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The average level of care. However, if you have the means you get the best in the US.
Also true, if you are the rare individual who has the great means to access the gold-standard care that is available here in the U.S., a level of care that is unaffordable and thus inaccessible to most Americans.

Most Americans have to settle for overly expensive yet lower-quality care than is enjoyed by most/all other industrialized nations. Don't forget though, that high cost of medical care here, roughly twice the GNP expenditures of, say, Germany or Sweeden, do effect ALL Americans quite negatively.

Make sure we're comparing apples to apples here in regarding to talking about a narrow sliver of top-quality care vs. the overall care most in this country actually do experience.

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The only reason anyone leaves the US for medical care is to save money.
Or, far more likely, they can't afford American health care and drugs.

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There is only one reason why people from all over the world come to the US for medical care.
They are rich enough to afford that top-tier level care that is available here to those very few rich enough to afford it.

Last edited by Rhumb; 07-01-2013 at 03:58 PM.
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Old 07-01-2013, 03:58 PM   #40
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BTW, if they think it is expensive tell them to join the military. The only costs they incur is the cost of the wife's meals at the hospital, about 20 dollars a day. And sometimes that can be waived.
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