E46 BMW Social Directory E46 FAQ 3-Series Discussion Forums BMW Photo Gallery BMW 3-Series Technical Information E46 Fanatics - The Ultimate BMW Resource BMW Vendors General E46 Forum The Tire Rack's Tire Wheel Forum Forced Induction Forum The Off-Topic The E46 BMW Showroom For Sale, For Trade or Wanting to Buy

Welcome to the E46Fanatics forums. E46Fanatics is the premiere website for BMW 3 series owners around the world with interactive forums, a geographical enthusiast directory, photo galleries, and technical information for BMW enthusiasts.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Go Back   E46Fanatics > Tuning & Tech > Driveline, Engine & DME Tuning

Driveline, Engine & DME Tuning
Talk about driveline improvements, NA tuning and DME tuning your E46 BMW here. This includes diffs, intakes, exhausts, chips, software and OBD tuning.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rating: Thread Rating: 1 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
Old 07-02-2013, 06:16 PM   #1
McSpeed
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 1,073
My Ride: 2005 ZHP TT Stg 1
Shifts getting tough when I parked; when I came back the car wouldn't start

Hey guys! Long time. The car's been awesome until the other day:

As I was maneuvering to park at a grocery store I noticed that getting into first gear and reverse was suddenly tough. I knew this meant the clutch wasn't disengaging fully and figured I'd put it up on jackstands for a looksee when I got home. But when I got out of the grocery store 30 minutes later, the car wouldn't start - just as if I wasn't pressing the clutch pedal down (I believe this is due to the 'clutch safety switch'). I knew that taking the clutch stop out might get me enough travel to start the car, but I'd also heard that it wasn't good for the clutch master cylinder seals so I opted to have AAA flatbed it back home. So now the car is on jackstands.

Notes so far:
  • the slave cylinder looks fine
  • the clutch master cylinder looks fine
  • the brake fluid is at max
  • there are no visible leaks
  • the clutch pedal arm doesn't look bent and the linkages seem ok
  • peering through the slave cylinder hole with a flashlight I confirmed that all 6 pressure plate bolts are in place (it's the SRE PP)
  • I replaced the rubber hose to the slave cylinder about a month ago because the original had a bulge in it. The whole brake and clutch system was flushed at that time.

I was about to bleed the clutch hydraulics again and go from there but I wanted to see what you guys thought first. What causes the the clutch switch to not trip and the clutch to drag slightly when the pedal essentially feels normal? I was thinking maybe the clutch release lever/fork could be bent *gulp*, but then why would that prevent the clutch switch from tripping? That makes me wonder about the clutch master cylinder...a part I have never had to mess with.
__________________


SOLD but fondly remembered...
Technique Tuning Stage 1 Turbo w/ Greddy Profec B Spec II | 3.07 Quaife
ATI Super Damper | Vaio Oil Pump | VAC Pan Baffle | SRE Organic Clutch
Turner Reinforcements | SPC Camber Arms | Powerflex FCABs & SFBs

Turbo Driveability Video

Horsepower vs. Torque

Last edited by McSpeed; 07-02-2013 at 06:30 PM.
McSpeed is offline   Reply With Quote
Ads by Google

Guests, get your FREE E46Fanatics.com membership to remove this ad.
Old 07-03-2013, 02:12 AM   #2
HakenTT
OEM ///Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: gross deutsches reich USA
Posts: 498
My Ride: 323i with S54
connect it to the INPA and watch live data, and see if you can see clutch pedal signal.
__________________
---------------------
Siemens tuning junkie
HakenTT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2013, 08:36 AM   #3
McSpeed
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 1,073
My Ride: 2005 ZHP TT Stg 1
Interesting! What if I did that and there was no clutch pedal signal? Would that imply that the clutch master cylinder is faulty?
__________________


SOLD but fondly remembered...
Technique Tuning Stage 1 Turbo w/ Greddy Profec B Spec II | 3.07 Quaife
ATI Super Damper | Vaio Oil Pump | VAC Pan Baffle | SRE Organic Clutch
Turner Reinforcements | SPC Camber Arms | Powerflex FCABs & SFBs

Turbo Driveability Video

Horsepower vs. Torque

Last edited by McSpeed; 07-03-2013 at 12:16 PM.
McSpeed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2013, 03:25 PM   #4
McSpeed
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 1,073
My Ride: 2005 ZHP TT Stg 1
Update:
  • When I remove the clutch stop, the car will crank. I only let it crank for a split second, but that's enough to establish that the clutch switch works.
  • When I screw the clutch stop back in and try to start, there is no cranking.

Since the issues of the clutch switch not tripping AND the clutch dragging were simultaneous, it's as if the the clutch master cylinder piston is not getting pushed far enough, pointing to wear on the clutch pedal bushings and/or a bent clutch pedal arm, correct?

Here's the clutch stop:
__________________


SOLD but fondly remembered...
Technique Tuning Stage 1 Turbo w/ Greddy Profec B Spec II | 3.07 Quaife
ATI Super Damper | Vaio Oil Pump | VAC Pan Baffle | SRE Organic Clutch
Turner Reinforcements | SPC Camber Arms | Powerflex FCABs & SFBs

Turbo Driveability Video

Horsepower vs. Torque

Last edited by McSpeed; 07-04-2013 at 04:11 PM.
McSpeed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2013, 12:11 AM   #5
PEI330Ci
58mm of Bliss
 
PEI330Ci's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: PEI,Canada
Posts: 3,958
My Ride: 330i, 330Ci
It almost sounds like the pivot point on the clutch pedal has changed.

As both the clutch dis-engagement, and the sensor are saying the same thing.
PEI330Ci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2013, 12:36 AM   #6
PEI330Ci
58mm of Bliss
 
PEI330Ci's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: PEI,Canada
Posts: 3,958
My Ride: 330i, 330Ci
Ok...I dug out a picture of a removed pedal set....including the brake switch mounting bracket. This is really confusing me now, because the only way the pivot position would change is if the composite clutch pedal broke....and it would basically fall off it that happened. Both the brake and clutch share the same pivot pin.

I think you may have had 1 problem and caused the other.

First, I think there is an issue with the clutch. By pressing down the clutch pedal further, you've actually moved the brake position switch. (It has a ratcheting mounting mechanism) You'll need to look under there to see what I mean. I think when you were moving the car around before going into the store, was the initial "extra" pedal movement that moved the switch.

The real issue may be related to either the throw-out bearing, pressure plate, or there's a plastic pivot point on the far side of the transmission that the clutch fork sits on. I've heard of those getting worn out...breaking...or even falling out.
PEI330Ci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2013, 09:33 AM   #7
McSpeed
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 1,073
My Ride: 2005 ZHP TT Stg 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by PEI330Ci View Post
It almost sounds like the pivot point on the clutch pedal has changed.

As both the clutch dis-engagement, and the sensor are saying the same thing.
changed.... like THIS?? :


here's what the pin that connects the pedal to the master cylinder arm is supposed to look like:

(taken from this thread which has great pics that match my car: http://www.chitownm.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3694.
this one is also good: http://m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=88857)

As soon as I pulled the spring off, I noticed some considerable play in the pedal. The busted pin was just floating in there loose.

Earlier the day the problem initially arose I thought I heard some kind of snap when I put the clutch in at the same time as I rolled over the bump that marks the beginning of my driveway. The combined force of the my foot and the bump, along with some uncontrolled twist, may have finally overwhelmed the pin. In my research I hadn't seen anyone who'd had this happen, but then again the Sachs Race Engineering pressure plate makes for some unusually high pedal resistance.
__________________


SOLD but fondly remembered...
Technique Tuning Stage 1 Turbo w/ Greddy Profec B Spec II | 3.07 Quaife
ATI Super Damper | Vaio Oil Pump | VAC Pan Baffle | SRE Organic Clutch
Turner Reinforcements | SPC Camber Arms | Powerflex FCABs & SFBs

Turbo Driveability Video

Horsepower vs. Torque

Last edited by McSpeed; 07-05-2013 at 09:37 AM.
McSpeed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2013, 06:07 AM   #8
PEI330Ci
58mm of Bliss
 
PEI330Ci's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: PEI,Canada
Posts: 3,958
My Ride: 330i, 330Ci
That would do it.

Here's the picture I was referencing above:



Any thoughts on making it out of some other material?


Edit: I see now that I was talking about the wrong pivot pin. On earlier cars, there is a pressure switch for the clutch, on later cars there is a magnetic switch for the clutch. I had the magnetic switch like you have on my 330Ci, and ended up grafting the entire OEM clutch assembly into a Tilton pedal box. I'll dig up the picture just for S&Gs...

Smart find on the research!

Last edited by PEI330Ci; 07-06-2013 at 06:12 AM.
PEI330Ci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2013, 06:24 AM   #9
PEI330Ci
58mm of Bliss
 
PEI330Ci's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: PEI,Canada
Posts: 3,958
My Ride: 330i, 330Ci
I realize this is a bit OT, but I figured the OP wouldn't mind.











The joke was that I realized afterwards all I needed to do was add a Hobbs switch on the hydraulic line, and I could have kept the Tilton MC.
PEI330Ci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2013, 07:12 AM   #10
McSpeed
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 1,073
My Ride: 2005 ZHP TT Stg 1
Neat - so those two brake cylnders eliminate the big flying saucer OEM master cylinder? Bummer it didn't work out though; it's so nice and tidy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PEI330Ci View Post
Any thoughts on making it out of some other material?
ha as luck would have it BMW made a new, superseding, part # with new material. Feels tougher:


With the replacement of this pin, which connects the clutch pedal to the arm of the clutch master cylinder, my car's issue has officially been resolved. Ahhh, off the jack stands at last...
__________________


SOLD but fondly remembered...
Technique Tuning Stage 1 Turbo w/ Greddy Profec B Spec II | 3.07 Quaife
ATI Super Damper | Vaio Oil Pump | VAC Pan Baffle | SRE Organic Clutch
Turner Reinforcements | SPC Camber Arms | Powerflex FCABs & SFBs

Turbo Driveability Video

Horsepower vs. Torque
McSpeed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2013, 08:14 AM   #11
PEI330Ci
58mm of Bliss
 
PEI330Ci's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: PEI,Canada
Posts: 3,958
My Ride: 330i, 330Ci
Quote:
Originally Posted by McSpeed View Post
Neat - so those two brake cylnders eliminate the big flying saucer OEM master cylinder? Bummer it didn't work out though; it's so nice and tidy.



ha as luck would have it BMW made a new, superseding, part # with new material. Feels tougher:


With the replacement of this pin, which connects the clutch pedal to the arm of the clutch master cylinder, my car's issue has officially been resolved. Ahhh, off the jack stands at last...
Good news on the updated part!

On the next race car, I'll probably be doing a Tilton 600 series pedal box.

The P54 intake manifold hits the OEM brake assembly (BIg disk)....one of a few reasons why I didn't put it on the 330i.
PEI330Ci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2013, 08:35 AM   #12
Hornung418
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Bel Air, MD/ WVU
Posts: 1,012
My Ride: '04 MB ZHP
Re: Shifts getting tough when I parked; when I came back the car wouldn't start

Quote:
Originally Posted by PEI330Ci View Post
Good news on the updated part!

On the next race car, I'll probably be doing a Tilton 600 series pedal box.

The P54 intake manifold hits the OEM brake assembly (BIg disk)....one of a few reasons why I didn't put it on the 330i.
Excited to finally see the famed P54 intake mani on your next build.

Good work on the fix McSpeed. Glad to have you back. Hope you are doing well!

Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
__________________
Hornung418 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Censor is OFF





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:16 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
(c) 1999 - 2011 performanceIX Inc - privacy policy - terms of use