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Old 07-05-2013, 02:35 PM   #1
xps
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Exclamation 325ci ECU with ZHP engine

I am in the process of installing a zhp engine into my 325ci after a "money shift" . So is it possible to start my car and run it before flashing the zhp software? what should i expect while running with a 325 tune on a zhp engine?

Also is it possible that my transmission has taken the beating due to the "Money Shift"? how could i possibly check before installing it back on the car?

P.S. Money shift-> 3rd gear 6500 rpm at 95mph shifted to 2nd instead of 4th.
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Old 07-05-2013, 03:00 PM   #2
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I don't see why it wouldn't turn over and run, it just won't be tuned properly for the engine setup. It'll probably idle rougher and have less power without the right software since you're coming from a 325, and the 330 has more displacement as well as some other differences in the manifold and whatnot. The only obviously major difference between the ZHP engine and the standard 330 engine is the more aggressive cams...and loctite on the oil pump nut

I question if it'll go into limp mode since all of the parameters it's expecting are going to be off? Don't be surprised if your SES light is on and you've got misfires.
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Old 07-05-2013, 03:07 PM   #3
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I don't see why it wouldn't turn over and run, it just won't be tuned properly for the engine setup. It'll probably idle rougher and have less power without the right software since you're coming from a 325, and the 330 has more displacement as well as some other differences in the manifold and whatnot. The only obviously major difference between the ZHP engine and the standard 330 engine is the more aggressive cams...and loctite on the oil pump nut

I question if it'll go into limp mode since all of the parameters it's expecting are going to be off? Don't be surprised if your SES light is on and you've got misfires.
^^ thanks

Do you any idea what would be the best way to get the zhp software on the ECU? I have just started learning about flashing the DME. but I guess Monday is too early to learn and flash my car successfully.

Any recommendations??
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Old 07-05-2013, 03:15 PM   #4
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That's a very good question. As far as obtaining the actual correct file for it, I don't know specifically how to do that, but when it comes to actually coding, I can tell you how to do it. I compiled a good list of info that can help get you started:

http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showt...ook-no-further.

On the minimum requirement hardware list, you'll need a laptop and a K-CAN cable.

http://www.amazon.com/Loftek-Interfa...rds=inpa+cable
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Old 07-05-2013, 03:47 PM   #5
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That's a very good question. As far as obtaining the actual correct file for it, I don't know specifically how to do that, but when it comes to actually coding, I can tell you how to do it. I compiled a good list of info that can help get you started:

http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showt...ook-no-further.

On the minimum requirement hardware list, you'll need a laptop and a K-CAN cable.

http://www.amazon.com/Loftek-Interfa...rds=inpa+cable
Thanks that is hell lot of info there! I am excited, just got my virtualbox with winxp running,downloading softwares now, i will get in touch with you soon
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Old 07-05-2013, 04:06 PM   #6
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Can anyone answer about the question i have about my transmission?
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Old 07-05-2013, 05:58 PM   #7
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Money shift shouldn't hurt a transmission. No matter what gear you're in, all of them are spinning. Only the synchro would have experienced slightly more stress. Not a big deal though

Also while the engine should turn over, it will run lean. Run the 330 software. Is easy to flash

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Old 07-05-2013, 06:30 PM   #8
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Money shift shouldn't hurt a transmission. No matter what gear you're in, all of them are spinning. Only the synchro would have experienced slightly more stress. Not a big deal though

Also while the engine should turn over, it will run lean. Run the 330 software. Is easy to flash
Will it be running too lean that may damage the engine? or is it fine to drive?

Easy to flash? not for me yet too many softwares NCS, Winkfp, Ediabas, GT1, SSS progrman, don't know where and how to start.

can I get the software installed by the dealer?
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Old 07-05-2013, 09:13 PM   #9
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Do dealers program the DME according to the VIN? Are they capable of programming according to the engine? Like in my case can a dealer reprogram my 325 DME to a zhp tune?
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Old 07-05-2013, 09:17 PM   #10
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A lean engine can be dangerous, especially at high load. Dealer can do the flash, convincing them to is another story. By default, the dealer software goes by what's installed on the dme already. If its 325 software, it'll install a 325 update, etc. It is possible to manually override it and enter a desired software number.

It is very easy to do the flash though. Don't worry about DIS, SSS, GT1, Progman. All you need to do is install EDIABAS, install BMW Standard Tools 2.10.0 or newer, load the e46 daten files into WinKFP, load 7561520, and flash.

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Old 07-05-2013, 10:02 PM   #11
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The dealer might be able to do it for you if you tell them the situation, but when they finally figure it out, it'll cost $100 to flash. Seems to be the general price of any programming at the dealer nowadays.

The dealer definitely will not get you all the BMW software. That stuff is pretty much...entirely bootlegged from the factory haha. The software you see on the internet is the software they use in the factory to load up cars. It's all automated for them, but it was also used in testing as well.

EDIABAS is the program used to talk to your BMW in a language that it can understand, and DIS or Progman are things that the dealer does have access to. They don't use it anymore now, though, it's a totally new system that will not work outside of the dealer from what I am told. It's all handled from servers either in the dealership itself or at BMW NA server farm locations.
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Old 07-05-2013, 10:38 PM   #12
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There are ways to get the new dealer software (ista) to work, but it requires a pretty epic computer and a decent bit of hacking. It's completely unnecessary though.

Even progman/SSS is useless. It can't do anything that WinKFP and Ncs can't. DIS has some limited uses, like brake bleeding.

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Old 07-05-2013, 10:45 PM   #13
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There are ways to get the new dealer software (ista) to work, but it requires a pretty epic computer and a decent bit of hacking. It's completely unnecessary though.

Even progman/SSS is useless. It can't do anything that WinKFP and Ncs can't. DIS has some limited uses, like brake bleeding.
I was wondering this question the other day, can I put DSC into bleed mode using INPA, or do I have to use DIS? Or at least cycle the pump? Cause I can't get DIS to work for the life of me.
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Old 07-05-2013, 11:23 PM   #14
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@terra:- thanks for the zusb no., that made it easier now

I think I have almost setup my computer with winkfp. All i need to know is the cable.

@zell:- the cable in the link u posted, does it need pins 7&8 soldered? it needs the modification? it has the ft232rl chip? Or do you think I can buy that cable directly use it with my laptop?

I am going to talk to the dealers around here tomo and see if they agree to do it for 1 hr labour cost, if not i will just go ahead and try my luck doing it myself after the engine is in and the car starts.

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Old 07-06-2013, 01:27 AM   #15
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I was wondering this question the other day, can I put DSC into bleed mode using INPA, or do I have to use DIS? Or at least cycle the pump? Cause I can't get DIS to work for the life of me.
INPA has some kind of pump cycling function, but DIS' works much better for me. It was able to eliminate bubbles that INPA couldn't.

Also OP: Pins 7 and 8 only need to be soldered for some modules. The DME programming works fine with just pin 7

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Old 07-06-2013, 05:16 PM   #16
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@terra

Can you make it clear why we need ediabas and bmw standard tools, ? I downloaded the SP-daten-e46 file of the internet and loaded on to Winkfp. shouldn't be enough to flash my DME if I have the vable communicating with my car? What am I missing here?

And on winkfp when I enter ZUSB as 7561520 it takes it to Unverbaut which translates to undeveloped? what does that mean
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Old 07-06-2013, 06:32 PM   #17
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@terra

Can you make it clear why we need ediabas and bmw standard tools, ? I downloaded the SP-daten-e46 file of the internet and loaded on to Winkfp. shouldn't be enough to flash my DME if I have the vable communicating with my car? What am I missing here?

And on winkfp when I enter ZUSB as 7561520 it takes it to Unverbaut which translates to undeveloped? what does that mean
Don't worry about the Unverbaut thing, it was never a problem for me. I think it's a bug. If you import the assembly line data, it'll give you the integration position, but when you close WinKFP and then open it again, it'll say Unverbaut again. Also, yes that cable is ready to go, even for newer BMWs.

You need EDIABAS running because EDIABAS talks to your car in its specific, proprietary language (which other people seem to have reverse-engineered, such as BMW Scanner). There are certain algorithms that ECUs use, and EDIABAS talks to them in the right ones. You can actually see the algorithm if you use certain programs in BMW Standard Tools. I don't remember which ones.

BMW Standard Tools comes with EDIABAS, INPA, WinKFP, and NCS-Expert which is really all you care about. The other stuff is development tools that is poorly documented and honestly I don't know what it does. I do know that you can do a whole lot with the tools, though. The only people that will know exactly what it does are going to be ECU developers at BMW. This is BMW's non-public in-house stuff, which is why it is so not user friendly and has no good help files. They expect that the people using it are already trained internally on how to use it, and that if someone screws up writing ECU information at the factory, they've got the diagnostic hardware to actually fix it.

When we get into actually programming our ECUs, it gets into the very cryptic and hidden world of embedded systems programming. We get a glimpse of it through BMW Standard Tools The dealer doesn't use this. They used to use SSS/Progman and DIS. SSS/Progman has these things actually all installed on the machine, but they didn't have direct access to change the files unless they were some sort of administrator. If you ever get around to installing SSS/Progman, you can view those files and see NCS-Expert is in there. SSS/Progman really is nothing more than an easy interface for NCS-Expert, and it talks to an external EDIABAS server. This is one reason why we do it on a virtual machine: to simulate that EDIABAS server by running it on our own machine. It's talking to NCS-Expert to do those changes. I mean the way that BMWs work on changing parameters, it has to talk to NCS-Expert.
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Old 07-06-2013, 09:12 PM   #18
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@Zell- that clears up the confusion!

How about the battery charger? read too many horror stories because of not using the right battery charger!

Which one do you use, which is the cheap and best option?
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Old 07-06-2013, 10:01 PM   #19
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How bad is the idea to use another car at idle and use jump cable connected to my battery terminal?

My issue is I need to look up for a place (friends) to plug in the charger, I live in a apartment complex so no power points near my parking
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Old 07-07-2013, 10:30 AM   #20
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I don't know about the jump start idea, but a power source on the battery is totally necessary. The transfer takes about 30 minutes to begin with, and if your voltage gets too low or your car turns off, then you'll have another issue that I don't know how to fix exactly. Never looked into a failed flash before.
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