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Old 07-06-2013, 01:42 AM   #41
dwtaylorpdx
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Not agreeing,,, or disagreeing just a thought..

There are several things that in almost all states are considered a "Lawful Order" at the discretion of the officer.
1. Stay in your car
2. Get out of your car.
3. Keep your hands in sight.
4. Open the door
5. Close the door.
6. Stand here ->

These are all shown by precedent to maximise the safety of the officer and the public.
You can pic nits on the constitutionality but in the end you will never ever win against these IF
the cop plays right on everything else.

Officers DO NOT have to explain whether or not you are under apprehension until they have insured
they are safe. again Precedent. If the officer believe your a threat he can handcuff you without arrest until its
proven you are or are not a threat.

Its like a VBR traffic ticket, you almost cant fight them. Violation of Basic rule of driving. The premise is that
the cop is an expert observer of vehicles, he saw you do something unsafe for conditions at that moment.
He is the trusted witness of the court, if your going to say otherwise you better have a good layer and
evidence to back it up.

The kid in the video was trying to set the cops up, he had the cell phone recording and drove to the stop
knowing he would get called on the raised window. The cop blew it. He could have easily been polite,
followed procedure and probably wrote the kid a ticket for failure to comply with the instruction of a officer
in performance of his duty. But he picked the bossy rude path and in the end, it will likely get him..
If he would have said, Sir We need to be able to see that your hands are in plain view for the safety
of us and yourself, please lower the window OR Place your hands in view on ...

Thank goodness my state banned these years ago..

Dave
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Old 07-06-2013, 01:53 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwtaylorpdx View Post
Not agreeing,,, or disagreeing just a thought..

There are several things that in almost all states are considered a "Lawful Order" at the discretion of the officer.
1. Stay in your car
2. Get out of your car.
3. Keep your hands in sight.
4. Open the door
5. Close the door.
6. Stand here ->

These are all shown by precedent to maximise the safety of the officer and the public.
You can pic nits on the constitutionality but in the end you will never ever win against these IF
the cop plays right on everything else.

Officers DO NOT have to explain whether or not you are under apprehension until they have insured
they are safe. again Precedent. If the officer believe your a threat he can handcuff you without arrest until its
proven you are or are not a threat.


Dave
I agree with all this. A officer will never know what he is dealing with when he is pulling someone over so its always better to be suspicious no matter the profile of the person. Just do what the officer says unless its breaking a major right otherwise your just raising the suspicion level
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Old 07-06-2013, 07:47 AM   #43
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A lot of clueless people in here

Ticket for not rolling your windows down?

Guys..... Come on. Educate yourself just a little...
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I agree with JonJon.

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Old 07-06-2013, 08:02 AM   #44
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i always used to say...well just do what the officer tells you to do if you have nothing to hide and you'll be on your way. fvck these a-holes. they don't know the laws when it comes to giving out parking tickets much less when it comes to this kind of situation. these fvckers can really ruin your day and you'll have to pay a sh!t load of attorney fees and fines and have sh!t on your record for not doing anything at all but "being a smartass". there are honest cops out there that are a pleasure to deal with and they have my respect but for the most parts it's some power tripping c0cksucker. as soon as they open their mouth i know which kind they are and how to respond.

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Old 07-06-2013, 08:07 AM   #45
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Excercising your rights shouldn't be viewed as incorrect.


... Also, surprised no one else has said it: InBeforejonjon
when I say that the kid wasn't right, I don't necessarily mean that he was wrong in the eyes of the law or what have you. legally and constitutionally yes, the kid was absolutely right and the cops were wrong. that's not what I am debating. but from a common sense standpoint, in my opinion, he was an idiot. all of that crap he went through that night, however illegal and wrong on the cop's end, stemmed from him simply not rolling his window down all of the way of his own free will when he got to the checkpoint because he felt like proving a point. if the kid had rolled his window down from the get-go he would have probably been on his way. I mean come on, pick your battles dude.

that being said. the officers involved should be punished.
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Originally Posted by Stankia View Post
Is that an oxymoron?
and no, just because one party's actions are wrong it doesn't make the other's correct.

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Originally Posted by DME46 View Post
Please keep in mind through this story, that the kid in the youtube video is a very respectful looking 21 year old Caucasian male. He was wearing puma shoes, cleanly cut jeans, a subaru t-shirt, and a fleece jacket. His hair is short and cleanly kept, and he have no piercings. Nothing makes him stand out as a rebel or any sort of a threat. He also lives in a good area of the suburbs, and was pulled over in a nice area near a shopping center.
at least the cops weren't profiling?
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Old 07-06-2013, 08:16 AM   #46
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He didnt roll down his window because the only reason the cop asked was to continue his fishing expedition.

If the window is all the way down, the cop can argue he "saw, smelled or heard" something (that probably wasnt there)

I crack my window on police stops. Only enough to speak and hear and pass info.
My doors also stay locked

I'm not being a dik, its for my protection and safety.

I don't allow cops to fish
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I agree with JonJon.

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Old 07-06-2013, 08:34 AM   #47
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i get it. you are well within your rights to do so, and i agree that if that is how you choose to interact with the police that you shouldn't receive any backlash from it. however, your tactic of keeping your window cracked to protect yourself obviously didn't help this kid's situation. in fact it got him pulled out of the car by a cop on a power trip and they searched his car anyway after their k9 got a "hit".

let's face it.. if a cop wants to search your vehicle, he is going to search it. period. i'm not saying its right, its just reality. if you are acting sketchy (and just cracking your window at a dui checkpoint can be viewed as sketchy by an officer: it's not unreasonable to believe that you might be trying to mask the smell of alcohol or marijuana) they will be more likely to come down on you, whether they are acting within the scope of the law or not. the nail that sticks out gets the hammer. i'm not saying i agree with it, or that it's right... but sadly, that's how it is. and i hope that officers who choose not to abide by the law are reprimanded.

personally, i have my window down before i roll up on a checkpoint. troopers have them all of the time where i live. they ask how my nights going, if i have been drinking. i answer them like a normal human being. i am wished a good day/evening/night and i am on my way. and i am well within my rights to do so. it doesn't make me a sheep, or whatever you choose to call it.
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Old 07-06-2013, 08:41 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sentaruu View Post
i get it. you are well within your rights to do so, and i agree that if that is how you choose to confront the police that you shouldn't receive any backlash from it. however, your tactic of keeping your window cracked to protect yourself obviously didn't help this kid's situation. in fact it got him pulled out of the car by a cop on a power trip and they searched his car anyway after their k9 got a "hit".

let's face it.. if a cop wants to search your vehicle, he is going to search it. period. i'm not saying its right, its just reality. if you are acting sketchy (and just cracking your window at a dui checkpoint can be viewed as sketchy by an officer: it's not unreasonable to believe that you might be trying to mask the smell of alcohol or marijuana) they will be more likely to come down on you, whether they are acting within the scope of the law or not. the nail that sticks out gets the hammer. i'm not saying i agree with it, or that it's right... but sadly, that's how it is. and i hope that officers who choose not to abide by the law are reprimanded.

personally, i have my window down before i roll up on a checkpoint. troopers have them all of the time where i live. they ask how my nights going, if i have been drinking. i answer them like a normal human being. i am wished a good day/evening/night and i am on my way. and i am well within my rights to do so. it doesn't make me a sheep, or whatever you choose to call it.
Yes, an officer is going to do pretty much anything they want, that is the truth, but I am not going to consent or participate in any activity that is intended to increase the chances of me getting lawfully arrested. They can fish but I'll turn that rod into a shovel. Acting well within my rights and the law, they will be forced to respect my rights and follow the law themselves or continue digging themselves into a very easy to win lawsuit for me. It's a shame, but money and embarrassment is the only thing to yield these law breaking officers

There is no lawful reason to look at my registration, license or insurance during a checkpoint, nor ask me where I'm going or coming from, nor search my car or even ask me to step out. People need to get more supportive of the people exercising their rights or you'll have none left

I hope these officers info is posted all over the internet so they will live in infamy for their actions.


I'm not "confronting" anyone. I was the one stopped in my lawful travel by the officer. They are the ones "confronting" me
Confront is not a peaceful word

Listen to the tone, see the demeanor and watch the actions of the officers. They are P!SSED OFF at the driver for exercising his rights.
P!SSED OFF! We are the enemy to them.

*******>********>
Main Entry: confront
Part of Speech: verb
Definition: challenge
Synonyms: accost, affront, beard, brave, call one's bluff, come up against, dare, defy, encounter, face down, face up to, face with, flout, front, go one-on-one, go up against, make my day, meet, meet eyeball-to-eyeball, oppose, repel, resist, scorn, stand up to, tell off, withstand

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I agree with JonJon.

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Old 07-06-2013, 08:49 AM   #49
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there, I fixed it. do you feel less vilified now?
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Old 07-06-2013, 08:52 AM   #50
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there, I fixed it. do you feel less vilified now?
Confront was absolutely the right word choice, just applied to the wrong party

Let them keep doing what they do... makes it easier for me
Cops like this need to be removed from service and locked in jail

They are VERY unstable and dangerous
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I agree with JonJon.

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Old 07-06-2013, 08:55 AM   #51
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lol. hey, I agree that our rights are being washed down the tubes and we have to be vigilant and supportive. i just also think that it's not very polite to only crack your window when engaging someone in conversation.
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Old 07-06-2013, 08:59 AM   #52
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lol. hey, I agree that our rights are being washed down the tubes and we have to be vigilant and supportive. i just also think that it's not very polite to only crack your window when engaging someone in conversation.
What's impolite is being stopped on the road for no reason to me.
If the officer can hear you and see you, what's the issue?

You have to understand, the officer is using every millisecond to determine if law is being broken. You're literally being analyzed up and down for a reason to be arrested. It's NOT a polite encounter or a chance to make friends. It's a 100% CYA situation and you should be on your toes.

Is it considered "impolite" to refuse a search of your car? Answer questions, disclose your destination?

Be polite, be nice, but CYA


Comment from a cop: Heres an officers mentality

Quote:
LEAGUEofSOOT 10 minutes ago
This comment has received too many negative votes
If I had been on duty that night and a jerk gave me a hard time after asking for his identification, all I have to say is that I would be on a paid leave pending the investigation. I simply wouldve trained my gun and demanded that he or she comply to***65279; my immediate orders, and if not...well let's just say that I'd be on a paid vacation, for about 2 weeks. We put our lives on the line for your sorry asses. You hate us, until you need us.
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I agree with JonJon.

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Old 07-06-2013, 09:10 AM   #53
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What's impolite is being stopped on the road for no reason to me.
If the officer can hear you and see you, what's the issue?

You have to understand, the officer is using every millisecond to determine if law is being broken. You're literally being analyzed up and down for a reason to be arrested. It's NOT a polite encounter or a chance to make friends. It's a 100% CYA situation and you should be on your toes.

Is it considered "impolite" to refuse a search of your car? Answer questions, disclose your destination?

Be polite, be nice, but CYA


Comment from a cop: Heres an officers mentality


i understand that legally there shouldn't be an issue. but like you said, the officer is using every millisecond to determine if a law is being broken. and in an officer's mind, a cracked window at a checkpoint and a refusal to roll it down (no matter how lawful the citizen is in their refusal) is still a red flag. while i understand the citizen isn't there to make friends, they aren't doing themselves any favors by making enemies. i'm not saying that people should lie down and have their rights trampled, but not every interaction with the police needs to be a battle of wits and constitutional law. i don't know, i might feel that way because i have a lot of LE friends so i don't view the police as much of a threat as other people might

it reminds me of gun control. and you know my stance on gun control and the 2a. and i am sure you have seen those videos of the group of kids (well.. adults really, but like 20 something year olds) walking down the main street of smaller cities and towns open carrying their rifles and cameras hoping that they come in contact with the police so they can prove just how much of the constitution they know. IMO, there is no reason for it. they are baiting. while i support the right to carry, i don't feel it necessary to bait the police. that's the same feeling i get when i watch this video, the kid knew what he was doing.
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Old 07-06-2013, 09:39 AM   #54
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I wish people would come to where Jon Jon works and make it nearly impossible for him to complete his job, repeatedly every day, then one of them record it, so we can bash on Jon Jon for getting perturbed and demanding.
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Your car, along with every other "stanced" monstrosity, looks like a steaming pile of sh1t.
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i know in your head that sounded like a nice comeback/argument but you just sound like a fool.
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Old 07-06-2013, 10:02 AM   #55
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I wish people would come to where Jon Jon works and make it nearly impossible for him to complete his job, repeatedly every day, then one of them record it, so we can bash on Jon Jon for getting perturbed and demanding.
I'm curious for your opinion. What is the officers job?
How was the driver preventing him from doing it?
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I agree with JonJon.

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Old 07-06-2013, 10:09 AM   #56
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I wish people would come to where Jon Jon works and make it nearly impossible for him to complete his job, repeatedly every day, then one of them record it, so we can bash on Jon Jon for getting perturbed and demanding.
i know in your head that sounded like a nice comeback/argument but you just sound like a fool.
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Old 07-06-2013, 10:45 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by mistrzmiasta View Post
i know in your head that sounded like a nice comeback/argument but you just sound like a fool.
you are under the assumption that I think about things before I post them, which in turn makes you a fool


My opinion Jon Jon? on what exactly?

I would guess that his primary "job" in a "DUI" checkpoint would be to use his sense of smell and sight to interact with the driver and use that to assess the sobriety of the driver. When he didn't roll down the window, that sort of inhibited the officer from giving him a little sniff and peek.

Was he in his rights, cleary.
Was he baiting the officer, clearly.
No matter what you do you cannot remove the human element from the officer, like everyone else if you upset someone, their attitude changes.

but that is like, my opinion man.
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Your car, along with every other "stanced" monstrosity, looks like a steaming pile of sh1t.
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i know in your head that sounded like a nice comeback/argument but you just sound like a fool.
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Old 07-06-2013, 10:48 AM   #58
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i know in your head that sounded like a nice comeback/argument but you just sound like a fool.
Certainly an interesting perspective. He's not alone
An officers job is to gain enough RAS/PC to make an arrest on a suspicion
of a crime.

"Making his job easier" would be to fully cooperate, renounce any of your right to privacy, searches or admission of guilt.

Basically making it easier for the long arm of the law to smash your life into many small, painful pieces.

Yes, I will make that as hard as possible for LE.
It's self deprecating to do otherwise
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Old 07-06-2013, 10:50 AM   #59
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Yes, I will make that as hard as possible for LE.
It's self deprecating to do otherwise
But in the end this dude had his car torn apart for no reason. Seems like that approach worked wonderfully.
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Your car, along with every other "stanced" monstrosity, looks like a steaming pile of sh1t.
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i know in your head that sounded like a nice comeback/argument but you just sound like a fool.
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Old 07-06-2013, 10:52 AM   #60
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I would guess that his primary "job" in a "DUI" checkpoint would be to use his sense of smell and sight to interact with the driver and use that to assess the sobriety of the driver. When he didn't roll down the window, that sort of inhibited the officer from giving him a little sniff and peek.

Was he in his rights, cleary.
Was he baiting the officer, clearly.
No matter what you do you cannot remove the human element from the officer, like everyone else if you upset someone, their attitude changes.
d:
He wasnt baiting the officer, I saw nothing in the video to show that.
He didnt roll down the window? So what, no requirement to. He also didnt pop his trunk, strip search himself or write down a confession for every moving violation he ever committed.

If you want to allow the law into your life, go for it. There is zero benefit to me and a ton of risk
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