E46 BMW Social Directory E46 FAQ 3-Series Discussion Forums BMW Photo Gallery BMW 3-Series Technical Information E46 Fanatics - The Ultimate BMW Resource BMW Vendors General E46 Forum The Tire Rack's Tire Wheel Forum Forced Induction Forum The Off-Topic The E46 BMW Showroom For Sale, For Trade or Wanting to Buy

Welcome to the E46Fanatics forums. E46Fanatics is the premiere website for BMW 3 series owners around the world with interactive forums, a geographical enthusiast directory, photo galleries, and technical information for BMW enthusiasts.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Go Back   E46Fanatics > Everything Else > The Off-Topic > Gun Talk

Gun Talk
Are you a gun fanatic as well? If so, you'll want to talk to other owners about what you own in this forum.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 07-14-2013, 07:15 PM   #1
daedalus34r
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Chicago
Posts: 519
My Ride: 2004 BMW 330i
My new Beretta 92A1 is an FTF-jamming machine, please help

as the title indicates, I am having a lot of trouble with my new 92A1 9mm. Basically 2-3 times per magazine, the round that should have been chambered will be stuck nose up 45deg and the slide is an inch from being closed.

In comparison, my USP 9mm has been running pretty trouble free, but it isn't an apples to apples comparison. Let me dump some data:

USP 9mm. Lubricant: M-Pro 7 dry lube
Range day 1 - 150 rd Aguila new 124gr. FTE=3, FTF=0
Range day 2 - 150 rd Aguila new 124gr. FTE=0, FTF=0

notes: some hiccups on initial break in, no big deal.

92A1 9mm. Lubricant: Hoppes #9 Gun Oil
Range day 1 - 150 rd Aguila new 124gr. FTE=0, FTF=6
Range day 2 - 150 rd Freedom Munitions 115gr. FTE=1, FTF=20+

notes: after day 1 i was worried, but i didn't clean the gun at all before the first use. When i field stripped it was dry from the factory so i just oiled it beforehand.

Freedom Munitions is commercially reloaded ammo. It has great reviews on its website and is one of the few decently priced options available.

So wtf am i doing wrong? Could I have a lemon? Another interesting tidbit is that I have 7 factory 17rd beretta mags. All of them were demonstrating issues. No one mag went through without at least 2 FTFs on day 2.

My next range day will be with the USP & Freedom Munitions ammo, but before then i'd appreciate some help with diagnosing my 92A1. Thanks for reading.

--------------------------------------------
7/15 Edit:

Additional Photos I took during cleaning after range day 2.





Does that not look like excessive wear after 300 rounds? I used ms snippit to ghetto annotate the pic with red dashed circles. This pic was taken after i used a paper towel to remove excess dirt but before i sprayed it down with cleaner.

Last edited by daedalus34r; 07-15-2013 at 03:35 PM.
daedalus34r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2013, 07:25 PM   #2
tailo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: virginia
Posts: 1,265
My Ride: 02 330I
Image removed


Serial #


Jonjon

Last edited by JonJon; 07-14-2013 at 10:25 PM.
tailo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2013, 09:54 PM   #3
shwagon
OEM ///Member
 
shwagon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Greensboro NC
Posts: 767
My Ride: 325it 5-speed
dem serial numbers....
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reedo302 View Post
What an unending cavalcade of rampant virgin Mom's-basement-dwelling douchebaggery... Wow.
My Gun Builds: AR-15, GSG-522-SD, Saiga 308
shwagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2013, 10:21 PM   #4
Reedo302
Registered User
 
Reedo302's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 7,742
My Ride: F30 328i M Sport
Try a couple different kinds of ammo, besides those and see what you get. If it keeps happening, I would bet you have a chamber that's out of spec.
__________________



Gunfighter Training Development and Evaluation
AR15/AR10 Armorer/Advanced Armorer
Glock Armorer


Gunfighter Training YouTube Channel
Reedo302 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2013, 10:34 PM   #5
asubimmer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: GA
Posts: 59
My Ride: 99' e46 323i
Sorry to hear, and yeah try other ammo. Makes me happy with my Glock. It will fire ANYTHING, several thousands of ammo and never one FTF/FTE or any malfunction of any kind.
asubimmer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2013, 10:53 PM   #6
daedalus34r
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Chicago
Posts: 519
My Ride: 2004 BMW 330i
only other thing i can think of is that i use an uplula aid for magazine loading. Works just fine on usp, i wonder if beretta mags are finicky and need to be loaded by hand. I noticed that the bullets can sometimes move forward and not seat all the way back in the mag. I wonder if the mag is doing this on its own even though I push the bullet back each time i load it in.
daedalus34r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2013, 10:54 PM   #7
GlockMan
Registered User
 
GlockMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,947
My Ride: Suburban LT 4x4
I could not keep a gun like that myself.

Try 200 rounds of a few different ammo brands.

Send it back if not better.

I can shoot marbles dipped in gun powder and gas in my Glocks.

__________________
.
!!! ROLL TIDE ROLL !!!
National Champions: 1925, 1926, 1930, 1934, 1941, 1961, 1964, 1965, 1973, 1978, 1979, 1992, 2009, 2011, 2012, 2014?



Ranting about Panny plasmas, Canon cameras, Glocks, BlueNile, and HDMI cables on a BMW board since 2005.

2007 Chevy Suburban LT 4x4 with Nav/Bose/DVD/JL (works for me)
1968 Ford Mustang with Polk/ADS (my first car)

2007 Lexus GS350 with every option
2000 BMW DINAN M5
2001 BMW 330ci
GlockMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2013, 11:26 PM   #8
dwtaylorpdx
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: PDX
Posts: 483
My Ride: 2005 330xi
Most,, 92F typically shoot FMJ fine. They are building most of them for the military...
I'd start by pulling out the barrel, check how smooth the chamber is, check the feed ramp.
Check the wear points look for excessive contact galling. If the barrel is too tight in the
forward "bushing" area it will slow the slide down.

A decent gunsmith should check the gun out for < 50 bucks worst case. SOme if they are Barretta
affiliates wont charge anything. Or just send it back and tell them the trigger is rough and it has feed problems.

Dave
dwtaylorpdx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2013, 02:52 AM   #9
carcus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Mountain Roads
Posts: 5,548
My Ride: 2006 BMW M5
Strange, I have never had any issue with my old duty M9 or my current 92FS. Never jams and is more accurate than my Glock. Great gun. I have never ran a new gun right out of the box without a full clean though....even a new Glock with the copper crap all over it. When my HK P30L was new, it took a while to break in.

Do what I did with my Kimber when it was new....sit on the couch and work the slide for a while. Also, just try some Winchester White box or Federal 9mm and leave the reloads alone for a while. The Beretta is a very nice gun. Try loading 10 rounds in each mag. I use a Uplula all the time and never have any mag issues with it. Slap the mags with your palm when done.

__________________
2006 M5 E60, "Lord Vader" Last real NA M series
German Car Fanatic. Colorado ///M Flight member, BMW CCA member.
carcus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2013, 08:47 AM   #10
daedalus34r
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Chicago
Posts: 519
My Ride: 2004 BMW 330i
ok, so some easy tests to do is with some better ammo. I'll try to find a range that has 9mm in stock. Until then i can only cross check with freedom munitions in my USP.

Could it be that the recoil spring is too stiff from the factory? I think that with the open slide design, FTEs are easily mitigated, but since the slide doesn't travel far back enough, its jamming the round before it has time to enter the barrel.

Last edited by daedalus34r; 07-15-2013 at 08:48 AM.
daedalus34r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2013, 03:35 PM   #11
daedalus34r
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Chicago
Posts: 519
My Ride: 2004 BMW 330i
ok see opening post, i added some pics with frame wear.
daedalus34r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2013, 04:29 PM   #12
Serbonze
Master of his domain.
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: In my house
Posts: 2,046
My Ride: My wife
Looks like excessive wear to me for 300 rounds. A few comments...

Never, ever, go by reviews of anything from the manufacturers own website. I would try another brand of ammunition.

I've never heard of M-Pro 7 "dry" lube. The only "dry" lube that I know of is from Otis. What exactly are you using? Edited - realized that you didn't use this on the pistol in question..still a question though, and definitely get something to replace the Hoppes Gun Oil.

There are much better lubricants available, and I would definitely suggest picking up a quality lubricant (M-Pro 7 Gun Oil, Slip2000, etc) prior to your next range session.
__________________

Last edited by Serbonze; 07-15-2013 at 04:41 PM.
Serbonze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2013, 05:14 PM   #13
daedalus34r
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Chicago
Posts: 519
My Ride: 2004 BMW 330i
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serbonze View Post
Never, ever, go by reviews of anything from the manufacturers own website. I would try another brand of ammunition.
true, but I checked multiple forums and pretty much everyone praised Freedom Munitions, so i figured it will be worth a shot. IMO if the ammo is poorly loaded, I would think it would be more prone to FTE than FTF.

At this point I feel like the gun was not put together correctly.
daedalus34r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2013, 02:49 AM   #14
carcus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Mountain Roads
Posts: 5,548
My Ride: 2006 BMW M5
Frame wear looks normal to me. Lube it, get some good ammo and have fun. It will work itself out. Until you have a very tight 1911 that is new and you have issues.....this is nothing. Also, Mobil 1 synthetic oil you put in your car is good lube also Personally, I use M-Pro 7, in some cases...Slide Glide with my steel frame guns. Good stuff. Really, no worries....just work it in. You should have seen the issues my Sig P226 TacOps had when I broke that in. Now no issues at all.

EDIT: Has not been asked....but if you are running a recoil buffer in that new gun....remove it. Some people put them in new guns and have issues.
__________________
2006 M5 E60, "Lord Vader" Last real NA M series
German Car Fanatic. Colorado ///M Flight member, BMW CCA member.

Last edited by carcus; 07-16-2013 at 02:50 AM.
carcus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2013, 07:56 AM   #15
BMW4ME
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 212
My Ride: e92 M3
Quote:
Originally Posted by daedalus34r View Post
true, but I checked multiple forums and pretty much everyone praised Freedom Munitions, so i figured it will be worth a shot. IMO if the ammo is poorly loaded, I would think it would be more prone to FTE than FTF.

At this point I feel like the gun was not put together correctly.

FWIW, I've been using Freedom Munitions ammo for the past few months now (it's the only place I can reliably get 9mm) and haven't had a problem with it in either my HK P30 or Glock 26.
BMW4ME is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2013, 08:30 AM   #16
daedalus34r
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Chicago
Posts: 519
My Ride: 2004 BMW 330i
Quote:
Originally Posted by carcus View Post
Frame wear looks normal to me. Lube it, get some good ammo and have fun. It will work itself out. Until you have a very tight 1911 that is new and you have issues.....this is nothing. Also, Mobil 1 synthetic oil you put in your car is good lube also Personally, I use M-Pro 7, in some cases...Slide Glide with my steel frame guns. Good stuff. Really, no worries....just work it in. You should have seen the issues my Sig P226 TacOps had when I broke that in. Now no issues at all.

EDIT: Has not been asked....but if you are running a recoil buffer in that new gun....remove it. Some people put them in new guns and have issues.
The gun came with the blue recoil buffer, that was one of the notable design updates from the 92 to the 92A1.

One observation i've had is that the slide takes 30-40% more force to rack, it's really stiff compared to my USP. I wonder if that is just 'beretta quality-low tolerance' design or just mine being weird. I'm not too worried about the frame wear as long as it is functionally okay. If the next 150 rounds are still trouble some then I think I will start a warranty repair.

BTW, how does warranty happen for guns? Do i go back to the shop i bought it at and they just take it back and send it to beretta for me?

Last edited by daedalus34r; 07-16-2013 at 08:30 AM.
daedalus34r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2013, 03:15 AM   #17
carcus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Mountain Roads
Posts: 5,548
My Ride: 2006 BMW M5
Quote:
Originally Posted by daedalus34r View Post
The gun came with the blue recoil buffer, that was one of the notable design updates from the 92 to the 92A1.

One observation i've had is that the slide takes 30-40% more force to rack, it's really stiff compared to my USP. I wonder if that is just 'beretta quality-low tolerance' design or just mine being weird. I'm not too worried about the frame wear as long as it is functionally okay. If the next 150 rounds are still trouble some then I think I will start a warranty repair.

BTW, how does warranty happen for guns? Do i go back to the shop i bought it at and they just take it back and send it to beretta for me?
Shoot it without the buffer for a few hundred more rounds. Use some Nato 124 grain.

Sometimes for warranty work, you can take it back to where you bought it and they will send it to Beretta for you. Regardless, since I assume you registered it when new, Beretta will have your info. I normally break in guns with good powered new ammo and give them at least 500 rounds before I think about something needing to go back to the factory. Proper grip and ammo play a big part in weapon operation. I had a buddy who had a Glock 19 that jammed on him.....him only. Shot fine for everyone else. Glock sent it back to him saying no issues with weapon. He finally got pissed and gave it to his Father.

Clean it good, get some good loads for it, run 500 rounds and clean it after the first 250 rounds. But you know what opinions are like..... First time I shot the M9 was way back in 1994.....and I still trust that weapon as much as a Glock. Damn accurate also.
__________________
2006 M5 E60, "Lord Vader" Last real NA M series
German Car Fanatic. Colorado ///M Flight member, BMW CCA member.

Last edited by carcus; 07-18-2013 at 03:17 AM.
carcus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2013, 09:16 AM   #18
dfjaws
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: MN & VA
Posts: 1,458
My Ride: '08 E90 M3 / '02 Z3
Quote:
Originally Posted by GlockMan View Post
I can shoot marbles dipped in gun powder and gas in my Glocks.
__________________
dfjaws is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2013, 03:23 PM   #19
GasKing
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: East Coast
Posts: 603
My Ride: 14 Jeep Wrangler
Quote:
Originally Posted by GlockMan View Post
I could not keep a gun like that myself.

Try 200 rounds of a few different ammo brands.

Send it back if not better.

I can shoot marbles dipped in gun powder and gas in my Glocks.

sig worthy.
__________________
Exitus acta probat
GasKing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2013, 08:54 PM   #20
daedalus34r
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Chicago
Posts: 519
My Ride: 2004 BMW 330i
Ok im going to throw in the towel. I am now quite certain that I have the beretta 92 from Hell. This has to be a lemon.

I went back to the range for just 100 rounds. Still using Freedom Munitions 115 gr because that is all I can get my hands on. Before today ive put 300rounds through it.

out of 100 rounds:
- 30 FTFs. (round stuck nose up trying to enter the chamber)
- 3 FTEs.
- 2 Instances where the gun did not even chamber the next round in the mag. I freaked out thinking i shot a squib.
- 1 Instance where the gun fired but the slide didn't even move, I had to manually cycle to extract the brass.

holy shiet. I thoroughly cleaned and lubricated prior to shooting so no issues there.

I suspect that the slide is very much out of tolerance. It requires way to much effort to rack it. I'm starting to see even more wear on the frame. This turning out to be a wonderful $750 down the drain. Now i know why people love glocks so much.
daedalus34r is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Censor is OFF





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
(c) 1999 - 2011 performanceIX Inc - privacy policy - terms of use