E46 BMW Social Directory E46 FAQ 3-Series Discussion Forums BMW Photo Gallery BMW 3-Series Technical Information E46 Fanatics - The Ultimate BMW Resource BMW Vendors General E46 Forum The Tire Rack's Tire Wheel Forum Forced Induction Forum The Off-Topic The E46 BMW Showroom For Sale, For Trade or Wanting to Buy

Welcome to the E46Fanatics forums. E46Fanatics is the premiere website for BMW 3 series owners around the world with interactive forums, a geographical enthusiast directory, photo galleries, and technical information for BMW enthusiasts.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Go Back   E46Fanatics > Tuning & Tech > Forced Induction Forum Sponsored by Active Autowerke

Forced Induction Forum Sponsored by Active Autowerke
Discuss supercharging, turbocharging and even nitrous and water injection here.
Sponsored by Active Autowerke

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 07-24-2013, 09:21 PM   #1
mdrobnak
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: New York
Posts: 359
My Ride: 04 330i SMG TT STG1
Smile Technique Tuning 330i with SMG/SSG - Install by Maximum PSI

This is going to be a quick post for now, but I can now say I've joined the FI club.

Maximum PSI in NJ did the work, including compression and leak down tests, before and after dynos, and installation of an eBoost 2 boost controller.

I don't have the dyno files in front of me yet, but the numbers on a Superflow dyno was 188 rwhp before, and 308 rwhp after.

Initial impressions:

First gear goes by quickly now.
It's definitely got turbo initial non-linearity to it.
I'm still figuring out how to drive this now, lol.

Drivability is good, part throttle response is very good. Startup seems faster then stock. Idle is very steady, but a little rougher then stock. Causes a bit of a vibration.

Exhaust is louder then it was inside the cabin, outside I'm not sure it's that much louder.

Gas milage has been good so far, alternating beating up on it and cruising on the NJ turnpike netted me 22 MPG to Yonkers.

I want to say thanks to Mike and Luke at Maximum PSI for being top-notch professionals, and taking good care of my car, and to Nick G for coming up with an awesome kit and for spending the time to make some tweaks to get everything right. (First SSG car with this kit.)

-Matt
mdrobnak is offline   Reply With Quote
Ads by Google

Guests, get your FREE E46Fanatics.com membership to remove this ad.
Old 07-24-2013, 10:09 PM   #2
2000_328CI
DK Jack Sparrow
 
2000_328CI's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Isla de Muerta | DC/VA
Posts: 29,024
My Ride: 328Ci | Range Rover
Send a message via AIM to 2000_328CI Send a message via MSN to 2000_328CI
Technique Tuning 330i with SMG/SSG - Install by Maximum PSI

Awesome and very jealous. I looked into nick and his turbo setup for mine but opted against it given the drive to Florida.. Now that Max PSI can do it, hope to see it more often.

Are you coming to MPact? If so ill trade you one boosted ride for another... Curious how ours would stack up


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
__________________

Everything you need to know on muffler deletes : http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=745244
Wrapping an E46 in Vinyl : http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...ghlight=bronze
2000_328CI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2013, 10:38 AM   #3
Dreikraft
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Alaska :(
Posts: 692
My Ride: slow m3
congrats! OEM Clutch?
Dreikraft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2013, 10:59 AM   #4
luke@maximumpsi
Sponsor
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Linden NJ
Posts: 137
My Ride: 750hp E36 NickG Tune
It was a pleasure working with you as well Matt. I just sent over the dyno graphs! Post em up!!
__________________

Luke King - Sales@maximumpsi.com
908-290-3571
luke@maximumpsi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2013, 03:49 PM   #5
mdrobnak
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: New York
Posts: 359
My Ride: 04 330i SMG TT STG1
Yes, stock clutch.

Not planning on going to MPact.

Attached is the stock vs final numbers.

Stock torque was 186 ft*lb.

Back to work.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	final.jpg
Views:	248
Size:	130.3 KB
ID:	518483  
mdrobnak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2013, 07:54 PM   #6
JohnBlaze
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: DC Metro
Posts: 7,132
My Ride: Black Sunshine
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2000_328CI View Post
Awesome and very jealous. I looked into nick and his turbo setup for mine but opted against it given the drive to Florida.. Now that Max PSI can do it, hope to see it more often.

Are you coming to MPact? If so ill trade you one boosted ride for another... Curious how ours would stack up


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app

Chase, to feel the power in your car you need to be near redline, but since you run lean up there you're risking damage. Stop bullshitting and get your tune fixed so you can got WOT without worry.
__________________
JohnBlaze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2013, 10:25 PM   #7
mdrobnak
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: New York
Posts: 359
My Ride: 04 330i SMG TT STG1
After driving it a while, I've had some time to put some thoughts together.

It's noticeably faster then stock. I get the DSC light flashing more often in 1st and sometimes 2nd then before.

The turbo I have is slightly different then the normal kit due to end goals with the car. As per Nick:

"Your turbo specs are Garrett T31 .82 turbine housing with stage 3 wheel, with a TO4E compressor housing and 60-1 compressor wheel. This is larger than the usual 330 turbo I use (which is a .63AR turbine housing and 60-trim wheel) Yours will have slightly more lag, but support more top-end power."

As a result, power comes on a little later, which also makes it a little harder to keep my foot planted for long, before getting into "you're going to get into trouble" territory real fast. It's a lot of fun.

As an overall rating:
Would I do it again? Yes
Am I happy with the current state of the vehicle? Yes
Do I think the kit is overpriced? No
Is the kit perfect? No

More details:
Throttle input is a little weird at 'kinda in boost' levels. So this is where the complexity in tuning comes in. Having never driven a turbo vehicle on the street, I didn't quite get this. I had worked on a TT V6 Mustang before, which was an interesting beast, but did mostly full-throttle tuning.

It comes down to power delivery.

Centrifugal supercharger - linear increase in power as it's a linear increase in boost proportional to RPM.
Positive Displacement supercharger - near instant boost, easy to get into boost at partial throttle
Turbo - there's some lag, but boost is there earlier then you think, AND, is dependent on load of the vehicle.

For instance, if you're on a hill, you're going to produce boost easier then flat ground. Why? Engine is under more load, makes more exhaust, spins turbo faster. The interesting aspect about this is that the car is reactive in a way such that it makes more power when you need more power. To me, this is extremely cool. This also means I have to be very careful during the first few minutes of driving if I want to stay out of boost.

I can't explain the throttle issue except for the idea that sometimes I don't feel that I've moved my foot much, but the car reacts with a little more force then expected. I blame it on boost being there earlier then anticipated, and perhaps me being a bit less smooth then I think I am.

Not so cool stuff:
Aside from the exhaust smelling a bit richer at idle, due to the cat being further away and less efficient, the exhaust from the outside of the car is very similar. Inside the car, the 3" downpipe makes it a bit louder. 65 mph calls for 6th gear instead of 5th due to noise if you're cruising.

As mentioned before, the idle is a bit interesting. It's steady, but it's a bit rough. This is due to the single-bank conversion, and the fact that the BMWs are really efficient and need very small pulsewidths with the larger injectors. Once the car warms it's livable, when cold it's a bit much.

I hate that the eBoost2 is pretty much an open loop setup - you set wastegate duty cycle, as per your targeted boost levels. There's no correlation to the target boost level that I can tell. There's no closed loop feedback. Given the price of it, it kinda sucks. It's a nice gauge, and helps me ensure I'm not overboosting, so that part is good. It's got a lot of options if you hook up the tach wire and / or switches to toggle thins, but as a basic controller, it's a bit much.

The default setup for the breather isn't particularity ideal, as it positioned things to have oil fumes sucked into the AC. We moved it to a different location and that is now resolved.

The default setup may allow too much oil to seep past the turbo seals, which can be a bit embarrassing if you park incorrectly.

Support:

Both Nick and Maximum PSI have taken care of every issue I've had, and treated me very well.

The downside to both of them is - popularity. Nick is a bit hard to get in touch with, as he's a very busy gentleman. Nick answered all the questions I had, and gave me a few ideas I hadn't thought of, and ensured everything worked well kit and calibration wise.

Maximum PSI has a good amount of people dealing with them, so while information from them for quotes and such come quickly, getting your car in there may take a couple days. They were overwhelmed a bit the week I dropped my car off so updates from them were a little bit less frequent then I liked, but everything that was important was communicated in both directions, and they were determined to ensure everything was right in the end.


Hopefully this motivates others to take the plunge and turbo their 330! It's not perfect, but that's ok!

-Matt

PS The pictures show my messy aux input wiring next to the eBoost2.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20130729_103614.jpg
Views:	173
Size:	113.7 KB
ID:	519835   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20130724_083959.jpg
Views:	115
Size:	172.2 KB
ID:	519836   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20130724_084009.jpg
Views:	117
Size:	109.3 KB
ID:	519837   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20130725_084245.jpg
Views:	142
Size:	102.9 KB
ID:	519838  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20130725_084300.jpg
Views:	129
Size:	95.4 KB
ID:	519839  

Last edited by mdrobnak; 08-02-2013 at 10:25 PM.
mdrobnak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2013, 11:02 PM   #8
Commanderwiggin
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Calgary, Canada
Posts: 3,862
My Ride: 900rwhp Turbo M3
Fair review, a bit glass half empty but realistic from a perfectionist point of view which I all too much understand...now tell us how much you enjoy it!!!
__________________

Last edited by Commanderwiggin; 08-02-2013 at 11:03 PM.
Commanderwiggin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2013, 11:02 PM   #9
Rob43
Hates Low RPM !
 
Rob43's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Richmond VA
Posts: 3,614
My Ride: 2003 BMW 331Ci, 5spd
I'll just say, good for you.

Everything looks solid with that TT kit, I hope you really enjoy what you have.


I am curious about your turbo & what you mentioned about it; What are your future plans regarding that larger unit ?


Anyway.....
__________________



Rob #43 ITS/ITR/STU, BMW 325I, STU LAP RECORD
SUMMIT POINT WV 1:24:229 S.C.C.A.
(DynoDynamics http://www.vimeo.com/8486878 Dyno Video)
"Chance Favors The Prepared Mind"

Need Help With Your Nitrous Ambitions ?.....PM ME
Quote:
Originally Posted by RacerX View Post
Nitrous is a little trickier than boost, but it's not the spray that kills motors, it's STUPIDITY!!
Rob43 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2013, 11:31 PM   #10
mdrobnak
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: New York
Posts: 359
My Ride: 04 330i SMG TT STG1
I enjoy every minute I have my foot on the throttle.

As for plans, I'm keeping that to myself for now.

-Matt
mdrobnak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2013, 06:15 AM   #11
PEI330Ci
58mm of Bliss
 
PEI330Ci's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: PEI,Canada
Posts: 3,991
My Ride: 330i, 330Ci
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdrobnak View Post
I can't explain the throttle issue except for the idea that sometimes I don't feel that I've moved my foot much, but the car reacts with a little more force then expected. I blame it on boost being there earlier then anticipated, and perhaps me being a bit less smooth then I think I am.

I hate that the eBoost2 is pretty much an open loop setup - you set wastegate duty cycle, as per your targeted boost levels. There's no correlation to the target boost level that I can tell. There's no closed loop feedback. Given the price of it, it kinda sucks. It's a nice gauge, and helps me ensure I'm not overboosting, so that part is good. It's got a lot of options if you hook up the tach wire and / or switches to toggle thins, but as a basic controller, it's a bit much.
We've all probably been spoiled by OEM type turbo calibration. Not that Nick's calibration isn't on that level, just that he's working with different hardware.

The function we are used to from OEMs is "closed loop feed forward boost control". What this means is that there is a boost target set by throttle position, and this is controlled by a feedback loop. The boost target, as controlled by the WG spring, (Or EBC) does not adjust boost by throttle position. At part throttle, the turbo is trying to achieve target manifold pressure. The effect is that at 25% throttle, the turbo tries to continue to increase mass-flow through the engine, and the torque output continues to increase until target manifold pressure was achieved. In contrast, the torque output on a Naturally Aspirated engine would stay relatively constant at 25% throttle input.

I've simplified it a bit, but this is the "surge" we all feel at constant part throttle positions on most turbo setups. Well, except for OEM turbos like the N54 etc...which use TPS based feed forward boost control.
PEI330Ci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2013, 06:38 AM   #12
PEI330Ci
58mm of Bliss
 
PEI330Ci's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: PEI,Canada
Posts: 3,991
My Ride: 330i, 330Ci
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdrobnak View Post
As mentioned before, the idle is a bit interesting. It's steady, but it's a bit rough. This is due to the single-bank conversion, and the fact that the BMWs are really efficient and need very small pulsewidths with the larger injectors. Once the car warms it's livable, when cold it's a bit much.
This is part of the start up sequence that all OEMs use to pass emissions certification.

Timing is retarded, and additional air is injected after the combustion chamber. (Secondary Air Injection Valve) The effect is that part of the fuel is burned after the combustion chamber (In the exhaust manifold) to accelerate warming of the catalytic converter cells. With the OEM exhaust system, bank #1 and #2 are separated allowing for added exhaust back-pressure not to affect each other. With the turbo manifold, bank #1 affects bank #2 because they are tied together. The system IS less efficient, and if you are already using the minimum injector duty cycle, it can be more difficult to maintain steady RPM. In this situation, it takes fairly large changes in timing to increase or decrease idle RPM (To achieve target RPM) thanks to the lower efficiency of the engine. This is why the idle hunts around a bit when cold....
PEI330Ci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2013, 11:24 AM   #13
mdrobnak
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: New York
Posts: 359
My Ride: 04 330i SMG TT STG1
The throttle surging thing makes sense. With the DME not having software designed for controlling boost, the functionality just isn't there. It'd be the same problem on any platform that was not factory turbocharged. Given what Nick has to work with, it's a very good calibration.

As for the Secondary Air Injection, no, I mean, it's even rougher then stock as a result of this. It was always a bit rough, but reading led me to understand that's just how the 330 is.

I don't get any idle surge, just roughness. Like, literal roughness. My grandmother noticed it in traffic. That's what I mean.

I just think of it as me having a larger engine then I did before. I'm cool with it, it just takes a little getting used to.

-Matt
mdrobnak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2013, 03:40 PM   #14
PEI330Ci
58mm of Bliss
 
PEI330Ci's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: PEI,Canada
Posts: 3,991
My Ride: 330i, 330Ci
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdrobnak View Post
The throttle surging thing makes sense. With the DME not having software designed for controlling boost, the functionality just isn't there. It'd be the same problem on any platform that was not factory turbocharged. Given what Nick has to work with, it's a very good calibration.
I haven't found any commercially available stand-alone boost controllers that do TPS integrated boost control. Lots of stand-alone ECUs have this feature, and a couple of high-end Dash/loggers, but you're talking about some $$$ in hardware and installation.

AEM's EMS-4 is probably the best value for the money amongst the stand-alone ECUs, offering TPS, Gear, RPM, and Speed based modifiers to a base WG DC table with closed loop feedback control. Admittedly expensive, but you'd be able to add a few channels of sensor monitoring pretty easily with this device.
PEI330Ci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2013, 06:36 PM   #15
mdrobnak
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: New York
Posts: 359
My Ride: 04 330i SMG TT STG1
My opinion has changed.

Buy this kit. Now.

So, here's what happened:

* I had a VANOS rebuild kit installed a short time before the turbo kit. The shop near me, which is usually very good with this stuff, kinda messed up. I will follow-up with them soon. This caused all sorts of issues unti the car got warm. Then drivability was ok. I saw there was some oil in the seals in the 'half-moons' in the front, and asked Maximum PSI to look at it. Maximum PSI determined that the sealant was kinda just wedged in there, and that it did not adhere to either the head itself, or the gasket. Thus, I was leaking oil in the front and in the back of the valve cover. Maximum PSI rectified this. I consider this a 'pre-existing condition' and thus neither Nick nor Maximum PSI are at fault here in any way. I just wish we all saw the oil sooner.

Lesson: If you're burning oil, look at your valve cover...if it's oily..Fix it!

* The diaphgram of the wastegate being used currently is slightly larger then that originally supplied with Nick's kit. This ended up touching the frame rail of the vehicle, transmitting all sorts of vibrations and noises. This was clearanced by removing some material which was non-critical, and now there is sufficient rooom so this does not happen. Remember that annoying droning at 60 MPH in 5th? Gone. The entire exhaust is now back to near-stock levels inside the car. It's only slightly louder, near unnoticable for the most part. You can hear the droning is there in 5th if you're listening, but you can barely tell.

* The scavenge pump was installed due to where I am almost all of the roads are cambered enough for drainage reasons that they're gonna cause problems with smoke on startup, so this was something that I opted for. If I had to do it again, I'd get this from the beginning. The downside is that if it fails, it can be a big problem.

So with that, I had a fun ride home on the turnpike, and went from 20.7 to 24.1 MPG even between beating on it and sitting in traffic!!

So, I'd like to thank Mike, Luke, Billy, and the rest of the Max PSI crew for being an awesome shop, and Nick G for a great kit, a great calibration, and to both parties for wanting to make sure everything was right.

Now, with that all said, this concludes stage 1. More to come.

-Matt

PS Attached is a pic of the oil on the front seals. Apparently it was worse on the rear seals..
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20130922_150159.jpg
Views:	91
Size:	90.0 KB
ID:	529515  
mdrobnak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2013, 02:21 AM   #16
PEI330Ci
58mm of Bliss
 
PEI330Ci's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: PEI,Canada
Posts: 3,991
My Ride: 330i, 330Ci
What a mess...that's not where the sealant is supposed to be. It's only supposed to be in the corners. I clean all of the sealant off with a screwdriver every time I take a valve cover off...then spray contact cleaner on a rag to wipe off any residue before applying new sealant. Also...I tried once to use an anorobic (?) sealant, and it didn't work at all.

Good to hear you've got all the details wrapped up. Enjoy the ride.
PEI330Ci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2013, 10:46 AM   #17
7to3_enthusiast
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Virginia
Posts: 266
My Ride: '04 LSB 6spd M3
Thanks for sharing this info, I've got a couple e46 guys who are thinking about dipping into FI, and all I tell them about are Nick G and Maximum PSI...this will give me some more ammo
__________________


04 LSB M3
6sp, BSW stage 1, 19" Forgestar, PSS's, MXP exhaust, K&n intake, h&r springs, koni shocks.
87 rx7 tII 6266 BB .84 a/r in the works
00 Saturn sc2, DD, 36+ mpg
7to3_enthusiast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2013, 11:16 AM   #18
mdrobnak
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: New York
Posts: 359
My Ride: 04 330i SMG TT STG1
Quote:
Originally Posted by PEI330Ci View Post
What a mess...that's not where the sealant is supposed to be. It's only supposed to be in the corners. I clean all of the sealant off with a screwdriver every time I take a valve cover off...then spray contact cleaner on a rag to wipe off any residue before applying new sealant. Also...I tried once to use an anorobic (?) sealant, and it didn't work at all.

Good to hear you've got all the details wrapped up. Enjoy the ride.
Hmm, that's not good. I will have to snap a pic of the current state when I go out later, it's similar, but with different RTV this time.
mdrobnak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2013, 01:11 PM   #19
PEI330Ci
58mm of Bliss
 
PEI330Ci's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: PEI,Canada
Posts: 3,991
My Ride: 330i, 330Ci
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdrobnak View Post
Hmm, that's not good. I will have to snap a pic of the current state when I go out later, it's similar, but with different RTV this time.
Don't worry about it.

I am silly about some of these details...beyond being practical. At the end of the day all that really counts is that it works right? MaxPSI has you covered.
PEI330Ci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2013, 02:59 PM   #20
mdrobnak
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: New York
Posts: 359
My Ride: 04 330i SMG TT STG1
Heh. Yeah, I figure unless it's a problem again, I'm not planning on it.
mdrobnak is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
turbo

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Censor is ON





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:16 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
(c) 1999 - 2011 performanceIX Inc - privacy policy - terms of use