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Old 07-26-2013, 08:33 PM   #1
low flying
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Any HPF AEM wizards out there

As I mentioned in a previous post, my car leans out from 11.5 to 12.5 above 6000RPM (I only use Stage 1 low boost). Recent dyno shows that I'm making advertised power but lean at 12.5 AFR. I checked both the in tank pump and the inline pump. Also checked the Solenoid and it was OK. I hooked up a light on the dash powered off the pump power wire to see if the solenoid is actually getting a ground thru the AEM. The light didn't come on which means the inline pump never got power. The power side of the solenoid coil was good but a ground must be found thru the AEM. The light did not come on above 4PSI boost. There must be a problem in the harness, connector into the AEM or the AEM itself. I extracted the CAL file and checked to see if I could find the correct low side (what AEM calls) "output". There are around 12 outputs that can be used to complete a circuit with a ground thru the AEM box. I don't know which output is actually used but it appears to be LS12 (low side 12) and all of the outputs seem to be set right.

Now that all of our eyes are glazed over, does anyone know which pin on the AEM is used for the ground? I never got the oil pump and fuel pump test harness that was supposed to be shipped to the private installers. But this harness has the correct pin numbers on it. Radium folks, feel free to help me out. I will buy you lunch (up to two) if you can tell me where to look and how I can solve the problem using the AEM box.

I've been thinking that I will just buy an adjustable pressure switch and set it for 4PSI. That will work for the sea level tracks that I go to but may not be good for Denver.

Thanks all,

Terry
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Old 07-27-2013, 11:53 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by low flying View Post
As I mentioned in a previous post, my car leans out from 11.5 to 12.5 above 6000RPM (I only use Stage 1 low boost). Recent dyno shows that I'm making advertised power but lean at 12.5 AFR. I checked both the in tank pump and the inline pump. Also checked the Solenoid and it was OK. I hooked up a light on the dash powered off the pump power wire to see if the solenoid is actually getting a ground thru the AEM. The light didn't come on which means the inline pump never got power. The power side of the solenoid coil was good but a ground must be found thru the AEM. The light did not come on above 4PSI boost. There must be a problem in the harness, connector into the AEM or the AEM itself. I extracted the CAL file and checked to see if I could find the correct low side (what AEM calls) "output". There are around 12 outputs that can be used to complete a circuit with a ground thru the AEM box. I don't know which output is actually used but it appears to be LS12 (low side 12) and all of the outputs seem to be set right.

Now that all of our eyes are glazed over, does anyone know which pin on the AEM is used for the ground? I never got the oil pump and fuel pump test harness that was supposed to be shipped to the private installers. But this harness has the correct pin numbers on it. Radium folks, feel free to help me out. I will buy you lunch (up to two) if you can tell me where to look and how I can solve the problem using the AEM box.

I've been thinking that I will just buy an adjustable pressure switch and set it for 4PSI. That will work for the sea level tracks that I go to but may not be good for Denver.

Thanks all,

Terry
The secondary fuel pump runs off pin a2 on gen 2 Aem and a11 on gen 1

Grounds for gen 2 are c16,17 & 18 a20 is shielded ground. C15 is sensor ground.

Grounds for gen 1 are a14 , 34 , b26 & 28. Shielded ground b4 , sensor ground b21

Let us know how u resolve this so we can benefit. I had run out of fuel as well on the dyno thinking it was my injectors. But I think it's the same problem ur having.


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Old 07-27-2013, 12:01 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by low flying View Post
As I mentioned in a previous post, my car leans out from 11.5 to 12.5 above 6000RPM (I only use Stage 1 low boost). Recent dyno shows that I'm making advertised power but lean at 12.5 AFR. I checked both the in tank pump and the inline pump. Also checked the Solenoid and it was OK. I hooked up a light on the dash powered off the pump power wire to see if the solenoid is actually getting a ground thru the AEM. The light didn't come on which means the inline pump never got power. The power side of the solenoid coil was good but a ground must be found thru the AEM. The light did not come on above 4PSI boost. There must be a problem in the harness, connector into the AEM or the AEM itself. I extracted the CAL file and checked to see if I could find the correct low side (what AEM calls) "output". There are around 12 outputs that can be used to complete a circuit with a ground thru the AEM box. I don't know which output is actually used but it appears to be LS12 (low side 12) and all of the outputs seem to be set right.

Now that all of our eyes are glazed over, does anyone know which pin on the AEM is used for the ground? I never got the oil pump and fuel pump test harness that was supposed to be shipped to the private installers. But this harness has the correct pin numbers on it. Radium folks, feel free to help me out. I will buy you lunch (up to two) if you can tell me where to look and how I can solve the problem using the AEM box.

I've been thinking that I will just buy an adjustable pressure switch and set it for 4PSI. That will work for the sea level tracks that I go to but may not be good for Denver.

Thanks all,

Terry
My stage 2.5 is configured as LS12 as the Walbro in line pump. Configured in outputs as u said is coming on @4.99 psi.. Here is a possible idea U could adjust the load so that it comes on early to test it...


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Old 07-27-2013, 03:34 PM   #4
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Thanks being3. I was going to PM you today since someone else highly recommended you for info. I'm going to the garage to check the harness out now. I will keep everyone advised.

It's tough being an HPF orphan.

Terry
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Old 07-27-2013, 03:56 PM   #5
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Re: Any HPF AEM wizards out there

You can enable the 2nd pump from AEMPro as the above post mentions. We had an in tank pump die on an hpf car. Went into aempro and forced the 2nd pump on all the time. Got the car back to the garage etc. We did it live connected to the car. It's loud when it turns on. Try it with the car not running but in the on position with aempro linked.
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Old 07-27-2013, 05:02 PM   #6
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I checked the harness from the ground side of the solenoid coil socket to the "A" connector and had 0.1 ohms of resistance. So the harness is good but I'm not sure what the pin numbering convention is. The attahed picture shows where the tested wire from the solenoid goes. I'm pretty sure that is "A2" as being3 mentioned in his message above for generation 2 AEM ecu. I'm assuming I have generation 2; "c" has 22 pins, "A" has 24 pins and there is a serial port.

So does "A2" actually hook up to LS12 inside the ecu box? Should I open the box to see if that connection is OK?



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Old 07-27-2013, 05:09 PM   #7
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RMZ

That's a good idea but I'm hesitant to hook up my AEMPro to the car. I'm totally new to that. When I opened a copy of my tune in AEMPro while offline, everything seemed to be fine but then I started getting an error message from AEMPro that said "HPF1 is not a valid floating point value." Any ideas what might be causing this?

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Old 07-27-2013, 06:05 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by low flying View Post
I checked the harness from the ground side of the solenoid coil socket to the "A" connector and had 0.1 ohms of resistance. So the harness is good but I'm not sure what the pin numbering convention is. The attahed picture shows where the tested wire from the solenoid goes. I'm pretty sure that is "A2" as being3 mentioned in his message above for generation 2 AEM ecu. I'm assuming I have generation 2; "c" has 22 pins, "A" has 24 pins and there is a serial port.

So does "A2" actually hook up to LS12 inside the ecu box? Should I open the box to see if that connection is OK?



Attachment 518892
U have Gen 2 for sure. Ls12 in AEMPro is A2 on ur ems. U shouldn't have to open it. Did u adjust the load point for operation and test it as RMZ said ? I'm going to do the same for my car to check it as well.


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Old 07-27-2013, 06:08 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by low flying View Post
RMZ

That's a good idea but I'm hesitant to hook up my AEMPro to the car. I'm totally new to that. When I opened a copy of my tune in AEMPro while offline, everything seemed to be fine but then I started getting an error message from AEMPro that said "HPF1 is not a valid floating point value." Any ideas what might be causing this?

Terry
I've never seen that message and I've connected to mine hundreds of times. I would call AEM support with that to see what they say. Was it only a 1 time thing or does it do it all the time.? U might even try reinstalling the software.


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Old 07-27-2013, 06:33 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by low flying View Post
I checked the harness from the ground side of the solenoid coil socket to the "A" connector and had 0.1 ohms of resistance. So the harness is good but I'm not sure what the pin numbering convention is. The attahed picture shows where the tested wire from the solenoid goes. I'm pretty sure that is "A2" as being3 mentioned in his message above for generation 2 AEM ecu. I'm assuming I have generation 2; "c" has 22 pins, "A" has 24 pins and there is a serial port.

So does "A2" actually hook up to LS12 inside the ecu box? Should I open the box to see if that connection is OK?



Attachment 518892
Ok I just activated mine while car was off... Under load set value to -10 from the default 4psi and under rpm set value to 0 from 500 default. U should hear it go on immediately . Then Quickly set the values back to default. The pump will stop. It will say ur calibration has changed. U can save it if u wish to have a backup but as long as u put it back to default it will be active in the AEM live as u make the changes with the car connected.


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Old 07-27-2013, 11:36 PM   #11
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Ok I just activated mine while car was off... Under load set value to -10 from the default 4psi and under rpm set value to 0 from 500 default. U should hear it go on immediately . Then Quickly set the values back to default. The pump will stop. It will say ur calibration has changed. U can save it if u wish to have a backup but as long as u put it back to default it will be active in the AEM live as u make the changes with the car connected.


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Being3, I did reinstall the AEMPro and so far so good.

I'm a bit confused about this. So you reduced the load to -10PSI or 14Psi lower from where it was set. Also you changed the RPM to 0 from 500. Your fuel pump came on. So you confirmed that the LS12 switch worked and that it closed the ground at A2. But why doesn't the LS12 switch work at +4PSI? Is the pressure signal not getting to the LS12 switch or what? It appears that you are saying we can use these new settings to turn the inline pump on and have this pump come on even before the engine starts. Have you tried any other settings that might also turn this pump on or did you go back to the original settings which might now turn it on at the proper time? We don't want this pump to run with the engine off because of safety in a crash and also under light load we might overpower the fuel pressure regulator.

Thanks,
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Old 07-27-2013, 11:46 PM   #12
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Being3, I did reinstall the AEMPro and so far so good.

I'm a bit confused about this. So you reduced the load to -10PSI or 14Psi lower from where it was set. Also you changed the RPM to 0 from 500. Your fuel pump came on. So you confirmed that the LS12 switch worked and that it closed the ground at A2. But why doesn't the LS12 switch work at +4PSI? Is the pressure signal not getting to the LS12 switch or what? It appears that you are saying we can use these new settings to turn the inline pump on and have this pump come on even before the engine starts. Have you tried any other settings that might also turn this pump on or did you go back to the original settings which might now turn it on at the proper time? We don't want this pump to run with the engine off because of safety in a crash and also under light load we might overpower the fuel pressure regulator.

Thanks,
Terry
For test purposes only! U can Change the load to any value below atmosphere and change the activation rpm for the sole purpose of testing that the pump is working and that the Aem circuit is functioning correctly.

Important! The AEM then needs to be restored back to the original settings for proper operation.

The reason ur is not working at 4 psi seems to be another issue... Possibly a map sensor failure. U can easily check that. There r u tube videos that Jon at HPF do that r excellent.



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Old 07-27-2013, 11:59 PM   #13
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FYI: The map sensor that the Aem uses for calculations etc, is not related to the Aem boost gauge. Ur gauge may be accurate but is for display only and not a functioning part of the Aem ems unlike the Afr which is integrated. I have had new map sensor that was bad out of the box. The test to very if its functioning is important to do.


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Old 07-28-2013, 12:37 AM   #14
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I had a MAP sensor failure before with this setup. Idle was hugely rich. Replaced it a year and a half ago and the car has run great since, just a little lean above 6000 RPM. I wired in a light to see if the inline fuel pump is getting power above 4PSI. Mine is not but you could do this easily if a dyno is not readily available. I might try what you did to see if the LS12 switch works at all. Maybe I could rewire to another unused switch that is getting MAP signals - maybe one of the swiches used for RPM limit lights.

Terry
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Old 07-28-2013, 12:44 AM   #15
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I had a MAP sensor failure before with this setup. Idle was hugely rich. Replaced it a year and a half ago and the car has run great since, just a little lean above 6000 RPM. I wired in a light to see if the inline fuel pump is getting power above 4PSI. Mine is not but you could do this easily if a dyno is not readily available. I might try what you did to see if the LS12 switch works at all. Maybe I could rewire to another unused switch that is getting MAP signals - maybe one of the swiches used for RPM limit lights.

Terry
Yes try what I did to eliminate the Aem / wiring as the culprit. Thats why i ran the test on mine. Can u download the logs or do u have logs that show this happening? U can email them to me and ill,look at them for u. Just pm me and ill give u my email.


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Old 07-28-2013, 01:47 AM   #16
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When you replaced the Map sensor did you verify that it was exactly thesame? I had a spare that HPF sent me and it was a 5 bar sensor when in fact I needed a 3.5 Bar sensor that my car was tuned on.

This could very well be the culprit as the voltage output to the EMS from the sensor would probably never reach the threshold to throw your pump on.

IE - 3.5 Bar sensor @ 4PSI will output ~2.0V DC to the EMS

If you swapped a 5 Bar Sensor @ 4PSI will output ~1.5V DC to the EMS...this sensor will output ~2.0V DC around 13PSI

The sensor will be marked 3.5 or 5.0 iirc.
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Old 07-28-2013, 12:18 PM   #17
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Good idea. I'm pretty sure that I did check the new MAP sensor. And this lean out problem has existed from the beginning, right after installation of the turbo kit.. I would think that I would have other problems if the current MAP sensor is going bad.

I won't be able to work on the car for the next few days but please keep the ideas coming.

Being3,
Do you have the pinouts for all of the LS outputs in case I try to change switches to find one that will work at 4PSI? But I'll try your circuit test of LS12 first.

Terry
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Old 07-28-2013, 12:56 PM   #18
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Good idea. I'm pretty sure that I did check the new MAP sensor. And this lean out problem has existed from the beginning, right after installation of the turbo kit.. I would think that I would have other problems if the current MAP sensor is going bad.

I won't be able to work on the car for the next few days but please keep the ideas coming.

Being3,
Do you have the pinouts for all of the LS outputs in case I try to change switches to find one that will work at 4PSI? But I'll try your circuit test of LS12 first.

Terry
If ur running lean above 6k since u installed the kit then there is a significant issue. The fact that the Aem can add 5% fuel as a safety feature and its designed to run rich and pull fuel normally to attain target Afr, then u have a bigger problem than it may seem. In turn that tells me it could be serval possibilities : inline fule pump is not working, fuel regulator malfunction ( do the test i mentioned) or vacuum leak ( check the vacuums lines that run to the fuel regulator). ur fuel map is way off, or ur 02 sensor is hopped or not calibrated correctly. Map sensor is off. U need to check it. ( https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j...,d.cGE&cad=rjt also check ur fuel pressure at the regulator. It can even be a combination of these co occurring. So they all need to be checked. It could even be the fuel sock coming off in the main tank... It all depends on what results u get from theses tests... If u have logs that would help even more in diagnosing. I would be able to see the load numbers to see if they r correct... Also monitoring and logging duty cycle of the injectors can help as well.

The other LS pins aren't going to help u with this. U need to go through these first. I hope u drive ur car carefully if at all with this going on.


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Old 07-29-2013, 07:23 PM   #19
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Today, I think I isolated my problem.

Driving around town, I suddenly had a big smoke cloud behind me (scavage pump quit operating). This happened once before a year ago and I found the connector at the left front factory ecu connection was partially loose. I taped this on so it wouldn't come loose and didn't have anymore problems (except going lean a bit). Once my tuner told me I had a fuel delivery problem I started disconnecting the two connectors at the AEM ecu to see why the inline pump wasn't working at 4PSI.

So with the scavage pump also not working, I started wiggling wires and connectors at the AEM ecu. I could make the scavage pump come on and go off by moving the wires around A1 (oil scavage pump) and A2 (fuel pump). When I looked at the "A" connector very closely, I noticed that the female receptacles at A1 and A2 were rounded out significantly. All of the other receptacles looked good. I used a sewing pin to bend and close up both A1 and A2 so that they would make good contact with the male pins on the AEM ecu.

I also hooked up my test light to the power side of the fuel pump and went for a test drive. Oil scavage pump worked good and to my delight the fuel pump and light went on right at 4 PSI.

Wish me luck, I'm going to Laguna Seca tomorrow and hopefully my connector massage will hold up.

Terry
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Old 07-29-2013, 08:03 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by low flying View Post
Today, I think I isolated my problem.

Driving around town, I suddenly had a big smoke cloud behind me (scavage pump quit operating). This happened once before a year ago and I found the connector at the left front factory ecu connection was partially loose. I taped this on so it wouldn't come loose and didn't have anymore problems (except going lean a bit). Once my tuner told me I had a fuel delivery problem I started disconnecting the two connectors at the AEM ecu to see why the inline pump wasn't working at 4PSI.

So with the scavage pump also not working, I started wiggling wires and connectors at the AEM ecu. I could make the scavage pump come on and go off by moving the wires around A1 (oil scavage pump) and A2 (fuel pump). When I looked at the "A" connector very closely, I noticed that the female receptacles at A1 and A2 were rounded out significantly. All of the other receptacles looked good. I used a sewing pin to bend and close up both A1 and A2 so that they would make good contact with the male pins on the AEM ecu.

I also hooked up my test light to the power side of the fuel pump and went for a test drive. Oil scavage pump worked good and to my delight the fuel pump and light went on right at 4 PSI.

Wish me luck, I'm going to Laguna Seca tomorrow and hopefully my connector massage will hold up.

Terry
Glad u found out the issue...


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