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Old 11-13-2017, 09:14 PM   #41
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^ Again, the details don't matter. This is not my son's first cast, seems like we're getting one every year. This year's, however, was different, and that's what I am trying to relay.

I hope you won't have to deal with a similar experience, however, if you do, you might have to understand and accept that one anectode is greater than all of the opinions, including those of the authors' that were linked in the OP. And THAT is far from funny.
Maybe this is a contributing factor? I view this as two-fold. If there is really a shortage of physicians, then under our current health care system (if you want to call it that) I wouldn't be surprised if wait times increased as more individuals than ever are insured thanks to the ACA. Increased demand for care + shortage of physicians = longer wait times.

It seems health care wait times were ideal pre-ACA for those that could afford to access it

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SURVEY OF PHYSICIAN APPOINTMENT WAIT TIMES

Average new patient physician appointment wait times have increased significantly. The average wait time for a physician appointment for the 15 large metro markets surveyed is 24.1 days, up 30% from 2014.
https://www.merritthawkins.com/uploa...esurveyPDF.pdf

Insurers See Jump in Sign-Ups for Affordable Care Act
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Old 11-13-2017, 09:20 PM   #42
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It seems health care wait times were ideal pre-ACA for those that could afford to access it
I think this is key. Wait times where I live are really short (same day, usually) because there are plenty of physicians in the area because (shocker!) physicians like to work in relatively affluent areas, usually. Wait times in less desirable areas are going to tend to be longer, I'd imagine, because fewer physicians want to work in those areas.

I'm not sure how to remedy this without mandating where physicians are going to work.
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Old 11-13-2017, 10:55 PM   #43
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I think our statements are in agreement. I guess the focus should be on the fact that we don't have A system (as opposed to multiple systems).
Maybe that's the problem. A well thought out, unified "system" would make things more efficient, not necessarily one ran by the Government.
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Old 11-14-2017, 11:42 AM   #44
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As Cabrio noted, I don't think anyone here think's your personal situation is funny. What's funny is when these discussions come up, rather than discuss health care systems as a whole and how they compare and contrast against each other using published data, people feel compelled to give their anecdotes as if they carry any significant weight. Each individual situation is a single data point in a system full of numerous data points. It's just noise and detracts from the overall discussion. Not to mention, we are expected to take your word at face value. We don't know if you're inflating the story to make it seem worse than it is or not. With that said, sorry to hear about your son's situation if that is the case. Hopefully you were able to resolve the situation and understand why the wait time took a week.
You talk about these articles as if they are peer-reviewed. They are not. Also when it works in your favor, you seem to be ok with anectodes. Refer to VaderDave's post about his waiting times are shorter because he is living in an affluent area. Well so do I.

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You don't know that. You're assuming that's the case. So without you actually going, then no, I don't agree with it.
How do you know I don't know that? (hint: I am naturalized, holding dual citizenship). Who's living under a rock now?

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So it sounds like in year's past when your son had to get casts, the wait times weren't as long? What changed if you had to stop and think about it? Did you change insurance providers? Doctors? Only you know your unique personal situation. The rest of us are just strangers on a forum.
Referrals. Paperwork got stuck somewhere, an idiot secretary dropped the ball at some point. Do I have to deal with this kind of bs when it costs $3000/month to insure my family?

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It's not so much that we don't have a "system", we have multiple systems in our country at work. From post 18.
Your system fails miserably. There are much better ones out there.
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Old 11-14-2017, 11:55 AM   #45
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Do I have to deal with this kind of bs when it costs $3000/month to insure my family?


So an E46 a month...

Jesus. That is insane.
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Old 11-14-2017, 12:02 PM   #46
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So an E46 a month...

Jesus. That is insane.
Majority of that bill is picked up by my employee. But that's not the point.

Also, I just checked the actual numbers, so I'd like to correct myself before somebody accuses me of "inflating" the situation. I knew that it costs around $1,000 for just one person, so I multiplied that by 3. In reality, it costs just over 2 grand, because family discount lol.
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Old 11-14-2017, 01:10 PM   #47
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Maybe that's the problem. A well thought out, unified "system" would make things more efficient, not necessarily one ran by the Government.
So...a healthcare monopoly, then? Those seem to work pretty well in other industries.

The problem, of course, is that it goes against human nature. People, in general, prefer:

1) To work as little as possible
2) While getting paid as much as possible

So anytime you create a system where the incentive to work hard (which is to say "a system based on market competition") is reduced or eliminated (see: government-run programs of all kinds), efficiency is reduced, not enhanced.

Last edited by VaderDave; 11-14-2017 at 01:18 PM.
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Old 11-14-2017, 01:11 PM   #48
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I could have gone to any civilized country have cast put on the same day. Do you agree with that or not?
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You don't know that. You're assuming that's the case. So without you actually going, then no, I don't agree with it.
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How do you know I don't know that? (hint: I am naturalized, holding dual citizenship). Who's living under a rock now?
So you are a citizen of two countries and that qualifies you as an expert on every "civilized" country on the planet? Maybe you think there are only two civilized countries?

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Referrals. Paperwork got stuck somewhere, an idiot secretary dropped the ball at some point. Do I have to deal with this kind of bs when it costs $3000/month to insure my family?
As I suspected - the delay was due to human error. I guess you expect those errors never happen in any other system, or apparently never happen in other civilized countries, because you are an expert on every civilized country on the planet.
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Old 11-14-2017, 01:17 PM   #49
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You talk about these articles as if they are peer-reviewed. They are not. Also when it works in your favor, you seem to be ok with anectodes. Refer to VaderDave's post about his waiting times are shorter because he is living in an affluent area. Well so do I.
Your example still sounds anomalous to me. Have you talked to people you know in your area? Is it common to have to wait a week to get a cast on a child's broken limb? Or was it 1) a misdiagnosis or 2) some medical functionary dropping the ball? I have also heard of situations where a cast was not appropriate for a period of time because of swelling in the affected area--so they waited a few days for the swelling to subside before putting on a cast.

But the simple fact is that I don't have any idea why you would have the problems you did. Everything I'm doing is guessing, and everything you are doing sounds like guessing as well.
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Old 11-14-2017, 01:21 PM   #50
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So you are a citizen of two countries and that qualifies you as an expert on every "civilized" country on the planet? Maybe you think there are only two civilized countries?
I didn't claim to be an expert, but my experience does make me better opinionited than most on this board, probably even you Most other countries have similar systems (I.e. single payer). What makes you think their systems are drastically different than one another? Also, do you have another empty statement to make?
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Old 11-14-2017, 01:30 PM   #51
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So you are a citizen of two countries and that qualifies you as an expert on every "civilized" country on the planet? Maybe you think there are only two civilized countries?



As I suspected - the delay was due to human error. I guess you expect those errors never happen in any other system, or apparently never happen in other civilized countries, because you are an expert on every civilized country on the planet.
Lol wtf. In another country, I wouldn't have to pay thousands a month to insure, and wouldn't need a stupid "referral" in such a case, because I would have walked into a clinic of my choice. Your ignorance surfaces.
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Old 11-14-2017, 01:36 PM   #52
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So...a healthcare monopoly, then? Those seem to work pretty well in other industries.

The problem, of course, is that it goes against human nature. People, in general prefer:

1) To work as little as possible
2) While getting paid as much as possible

So anytime you create a system where the incentive to work hard (which is to say "a system based on market competition") is reduced or eliminated (see: government-run programs of all kinds), efficiency is reduced, not enhanced.
In a way, health insurance companies already are a monopoly. What's the difference between healthcare insurance company A from healthcare insurance company B? A slight price difference and the same type of shitty service.

How does an additional for-profit party between a patient and the hospital make things more efficient? Do the insurance companies make the doctors perform better? Do they buy new equipment for the hospitals? Do they cure diseases?

I just don't see how a health insurance company taking a cut from my money that should go to the hospital makes my life any better.
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Old 11-14-2017, 01:39 PM   #53
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In a way, health insurance companies already are a monopoly. What's the difference between healthcare insurance company A from healthcare insurance company B? A slight price difference and the same type of shitty service.

How does an additional for-profit party between a patient and the hospital make things more efficient? Do the insurance companies make the doctors perform better? Do they buy new equipment for the hospitals? Do they cure diseases?

I just don't see how a health insurance company taking a cut from my money that should go to the hospital makes my life any better.
Then you should definitely self-insure and pay for everything out of pocket. That will help you avoid having to pay a middleman.
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Old 11-14-2017, 01:39 PM   #54
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I didn't claim to be an expert, but my experience does make me better opinionited than most on this board, probably even you Most other countries have similar systems (I.e. single payer). What makes you think their systems are drastically different than one another? Also, do you have another empty statement to make?
Let's review your discourse in this thread:

1. Claims it took one week to get a cast on son's arm, but doesn't offer explanation as to why
2. Declares the US healthcare system a total and complete failure
3. Proclaims to know that cast would have been put on on the same day in every other civilized country
4. Reveals that human error caused the delay in getting son's cast put on
5. Reveals basis for claim #3 is dual citizenship, making his opinion superior to everyone else on the forum

I think I see the problem - you haven't been in the US long enough to learn that we don't fall for bullsh!t.

Another thing you will be shocked to know about the US - the word "most" does not mean "surprisingly few." Here is some reading for you, though I am not sure it is "peer reviewed" as you require.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/timwors.../#50589b3a5c5a
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Old 11-14-2017, 01:43 PM   #55
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Then you should definitely self-insure and pay for everything out of pocket. That will help you avoid having to pay a middleman.
Our current "system" doesn't make it a viable option.
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Old 11-14-2017, 01:46 PM   #56
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The best line of defense one resorts to when they realize they just lost an argument. Requote the poster and pick lines
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Old 11-14-2017, 01:46 PM   #57
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Our current "system" doesn't make it a viable option.
No system does. Healthcare is sufficiently expensive (regardless of where you live) that unless you are independently wealthy and comfortable with going broke anyway if you get cancer, you're going to have to pay into a risk pool of some kind. Single-payer is just another risk pool, by definition.
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Old 11-14-2017, 01:49 PM   #58
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Lol wtf. In another country, you mean the "other" country you claim to know about? I wouldn't have to pay thousands a month to insure and you haven't paid "thousands a month" for your insurance either because we already know your employer pays for it, and wouldn't need a stupid "referral" in such a case, because I would have walked into a clinic of my choice. Apparently you live in rural Texas where they don't have emergency rooms or doc-in-a-box or urgent care locations - they are on every corner here in Dallas - which is where most non-ignorant people would take their son with a broken arm Your ignorance surfaces.yours has been on full display since your first post
As for your current health insurance premium that is paid by your employer - deduct that amount from your annual compensation and if the remainder is more than you would make in "every other civilized country" then you should stay. If it is less, then please, move.
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Old 11-14-2017, 01:50 PM   #59
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The best line of defense one resorts to when they realize they just lost an argument. Requote the poster and pick lines
Or just tap out, like you.
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Old 11-14-2017, 01:50 PM   #60
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No system does. Healthcare is sufficiently expensive (regardless of where you live) that unless you are independently wealthy and comfortable with going broke anyway if you get cancer, you're going to have to pay into a risk pool of some kind. Single-payer is just another risk pool, by definition.
You want to compare some of the basic healthcare costs normalized to GDP per capita?
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