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Old 05-15-2019, 01:38 PM   #1
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In case you haven't heard, Alabama has essentially banned abortions.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/alabama...st-2019-05-14/

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The legislation -- House Bill 314, "Human Life Protection Act" -- bans all abortions in the state except when "abortion is necessary in order to prevent a serious health risk" to the woman, according to the bill's text. It criminalizes the procedure, reclassifying abortion as a Class A felony, punishable by up to 99 years in prison for doctors. Attempted abortions will be reclassified as a Class C penalty.
The people who run this state are fucking retarded.
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Old 05-15-2019, 01:44 PM   #2
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https://www.cbsnews.com/news/alabama...st-2019-05-14/



The people who run this state are fucking retarded.
More time in jail for the doctor than for the person who raped the girl. It's ridiculous and they know that it normally wouldn't stand. They are just hoping this goes to the Supreme Court and hoping they would overturn Roe v Wade.
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Old 05-15-2019, 01:49 PM   #3
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They are just hoping this goes to the Supreme Court and hoping they would overturn Roe v Wade.
This, in a nutshell. Every article I read about this says that that appears to be the endgame.
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Old 05-15-2019, 01:51 PM   #4
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I know what their ultimate goal is, and it's just disgusting. It seems like this round of republicans are more despicable than the last. I fail to understand how people can support such a hate-filled group. And the blatant hypocrisy is just astounding. Prime example:

Republicans: "Sharia Law is bad and should never be followed."
Also Republicans: "We need to control women and incorporate religion into politics."
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Old 05-15-2019, 02:26 PM   #5
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Old 05-15-2019, 02:27 PM   #6
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In before this devolves into everything except a discussion about how to determine as objectively as possible when an organism becomes a human life under the law.

Somewhere between "hey baby you're lookin good tonight" and "congrats, it's a boy" there's a point everyone can find where they say "yes, now it's a living human for all legal purposes". Unless we're willing to address our differing criteria for that, all the other arguments are dancing around the main issue.
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Old 05-15-2019, 02:27 PM   #7
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Republicans: "Sharia Law is bad and should never be followed."
Also Republicans: "We need to control women and incorporate religion into politics."
Yep
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Old 05-15-2019, 02:35 PM   #8
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In before this devolves into everything except a discussion about how to determine as objectively as possible when an organism becomes a human life under the law.

Somewhere between "hey baby you're lookin good tonight" and "congrats, it's a boy" there's a point everyone can find where they say "yes, now it's a living human for all legal purposes". Unless we're willing to address our differing criteria for that, all the other arguments are dancing around the main issue.
How about we let the potential parents decide since there is no general agreement and never will be.
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Old 05-15-2019, 02:40 PM   #9
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Republicans: "Sharia Law is bad and should never be followed."
Also Republicans: "We need to control women and incorporate religion into politics."
Meh, that's a pretty weak comparison.

If an individual believes that a human life begins when sperm fertilizes egg, then that person is going to consider abortion as killing a human being. They don't need to involve any religious dogma, their belief and reasoning can be entirely secular. That cannot be said about Sharia law.

Now, I don't for a minute believe that many on the right have objectively considered all the biology and arrived at that conclusion independent of their religion. I believe many of them simply believe what their religious leaders/institutions tell them. But the fact that one position CAN be entirely secular and the other can't makes your comparison fall apart.
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Old 05-15-2019, 02:49 PM   #10
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How about we let the potential parents decide since there is no general agreement and never will be.
Good idea. So if Mom & Dad decide that point is at age 2, we'll just stay out of it, because there's no general agreement and never will be.

Just because it's not easy to come to an agreement doesn't mean we should throw up our hands and let everyone do whatever they want. Imagine if we did that with speed limits.

Have you ever, in however many years you've been paying attention to this subject, heard disagreeing sides sit down and try to hammer out some agreement based solely on objective biology? Or has every discussion you've ever been aware of consisted solely of each side's well rehearsed appeals to emotion and vilification of their opponents?
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Old 05-15-2019, 03:00 PM   #11
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Good idea. So if Mom & Dad decide that point is at age 2, we'll just stay out of it, because there's no general agreement and never will be.

Just because it's not easy to come to an agreement doesn't mean we should throw up our hands and let everyone do whatever they want. Imagine if we did that with speed limits.

Have you ever, in however many years you've been paying attention to this subject, heard disagreeing sides sit down and try to hammer out some agreement based solely on objective biology? Or has every discussion you've ever been aware of consisted solely of each side's well rehearsed appeals to emotion and vilification of their opponents?
I forgot to add that the point should be somewhere between the Jizz flowing and the baby being born, but that should have been obvious. If they decide to get rid of their 2 year old, I'm sure there are adoption agencies that can make that happen.

The biological discussion has been tried before, every doctor can interpret when someone becomes human differently. It's a pointless discussion really, just let the parents who ultimately will be the ones responsible for the child decide.
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Old 05-15-2019, 03:06 PM   #12
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Good idea. So if Mom & Dad decide that point is at age 2, we'll just stay out of it, because there's no general agreement and never will be.

Just because it's not easy to come to an agreement doesn't mean we should throw up our hands and let everyone do whatever they want. Imagine if we did that with speed limits.

Have you ever, in however many years you've been paying attention to this subject, heard disagreeing sides sit down and try to hammer out some agreement based solely on objective biology? Or has every discussion you've ever been aware of consisted solely of each side's well rehearsed appeals to emotion and vilification of their opponents?
I forgot to add that the point should be somewhere between the Jizz flowing and the baby being born, but that should have been obvious.

The biological discussion has been tried before, every doctor can interpret when someone becomes a human differently. It's a pointless discussion really, just let the parents who ultimately will be the ones responsible for the child decide.
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Old 05-15-2019, 03:53 PM   #13
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I forgot to add that the point should be somewhere between the Jizz flowing and the baby being born, but that should have been obvious. If they decide to get rid of their 2 year old, I'm sure there are adoption agencies that can make that happen.

The biological discussion has been tried before, every doctor can interpret when someone becomes human differently. It's a pointless discussion really, just let the parents who ultimately will be the ones responsible for the child decide.
So if the parents decide to abort the pregnancy the day before the kid is due to be born, we're good? Hands off, because every doctor can interpret when someone becomes human differently?
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Old 05-15-2019, 03:59 PM   #14
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So if the parents decide to abort the pregnancy the day before the kid is due to be born, we're good? Hands off, because every doctor can interpret when someone becomes human differently?
If it's in the belly, it can turn to jelly.
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Old 05-15-2019, 04:04 PM   #15
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Old 05-15-2019, 04:16 PM   #16
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Republicans: "Sharia Law is bad and should never be followed."
Also Republicans: "We need to control women and incorporate religion into politics."
I'm not pro life, but the position is certainly not exclusively a religious belief. Of all the pro life people i know only about half are religious folk. To be fair, if you're looking at it scientifically the argument falls to the pro life camp. Pretty sure once the organism has its own unique DNA it's objectively a new life, scientifically.

I'm in the Thanos camp.
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Old 05-15-2019, 04:24 PM   #17
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I think this raises some excellent points, these comments are from a woman who is currently pregnant.

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The baby is a fetus up to a certain point in the pregnancy. It can't sustain it's own life without the woman's body, therefore it's not a human that gets the same rights. It doesn't even have conscious thought until 27 weeks. I heartbeat doesn't necessarily mean that it is alive. Look how many people are on life support that are terminated. I fail to see the difference. Plus pregnancy takes A LOT out of the mother. It's a huge sacrifice and financial burden to carry a child. Why force that on someone who may not be capable of either. It's barbaric.
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Old 05-15-2019, 04:36 PM   #18
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A newborn can't survive on its own
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Old 05-15-2019, 04:38 PM   #19
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A newborn can't survive on its own
That's not what she meant and I think you know that.
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Old 05-15-2019, 04:38 PM   #20
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1) Babies can't sustain their own lives for many years after being born.
2) How do we know the point at which fetuses begin to have conscious thought?
3) Failing to see the difference between pulling the plug on a person in a vegetative state and aborting a fetus just means you don't think very hard.
4) Oh, let's fall back on the "don't inconvenience me therefore barbarian" argument.
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