door locks are crazy

Just an update, we managed to remove the liners while the doors were closed (which was easier than expected), and simply pulled the bowden cable, and behold, it unlatched !!

now the doors are left open until the paint repair is completed, but i'm not sure of what to do after... is it possible for the cables to stretch that much (to a point where both cables of the inner and outer handles have stretched long enough to prevent the door from delatching??), i find that very odd... or could it be something inside of the latching mechanism that is faulty ??

any ideas ?

I ended up replacing both the cables and the lock.


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Hi guys. Need help with CL in my car, as it's driving me nuts now...
Gone through numerous threads and forums, read tons of posts and getting more and more confused... so I decided to post on the mother of all threads about e46 CL issues.
bit of background:
Car: e46 2003 sedan (UK)
- issue started with intermittent failures of key fobs - wouldn't lock/unlock randomly, until it stopped working completely.
- I exchanged the battery on the fob, but the old one tested had 2.99v
- the CL wouldn't react to the key fob
- cannot get neither of the keys programmed (module does not react)
- exchanged the antenna amp as I couldn't see the voltage drop on the cable sending 5v from FZV to GM5 (as per Scott's post http://www.bmwgm5.com/FZV_Antenna_Amp.htm) - still not working
- by this time the CL stopped working even from the lock barrel and central console - I took out the GM5 and sent it for repairs and got it fixed...
- after putting GM5 back in, CL works from the lock barrel and central console button but doesnt from the key fob, and I'm unable to program the key to the car (no reaction at all).
I'm pretty fed up with this because there is no other option that comes to my mind... Does anyone have any bright ideas that might work ? Anything I missed ? I'd really appreciate your help.

Originally Posted by jerryisback

......
- after putting GM5 back in, CL works from the lock barrel and central console button but doesnt from the key fob, and I'm unable to program the key to the car (no reaction at all).

Seems pretty obvious that the remotes are probably bad and it's not a battery problem.

Originally Posted by scottjoh

Seems pretty obvious that the remotes are probably bad and it's not a battery problem.

Hi Scott. Thanks for the suggestion. I'm hesitant to believe that the fob that was working fine before, stopped working the same time as the gm5 died. but everything is possible.
say this is true... what should I do to check it?
Can I buy the circuit board like this one, put it in the key case and run the key programming procedure? (turn the ignition x5 to position 1, take the key out, hold open button, and press x3 close button)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GENUINE-BM...kAAMXQUmFSmK5u
or this needs a visit at the dealership ?

If you want to be able to start the engine, you can not buy a used circuit board. You can not get it programmed at the dealership, even if it was brand new. Have the remote tested by someone who knows what they're doing and can test for sync, transmit power, range. I see that you're in Poland. That is probably going to be tough. BTW- the programming instructions from BMW does NOT say to turn from off to position 1 five times. Instructions were printed in the owners manual included with my E46 and I have scanned them and posted them on my web site since there are all kinds of crazy things posted for key sync www.bmwgm5.com/key_recode.htm


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Bumping from the dead,

I know Scott is the go-to for repairing the relays. Kudos to him for taking on the task, supporting the community, etc.

I am here to ask if there is a "permanent" repair available for these relays - My idea is to remove the old relays (or pay Scott) and use jumper wires to go to externally mounted relay sockets, so in 8 years when the relay fails again, I can just plug in a new relay.

Each relay is basically two 5-pin (SPDT) relays in one (Two "coils", with two "throws" each), so we would need 4 "standard" 5-pin relays to replace the lot. Should be pretty easy to get the relays and sockets as "pocket" items from your local PAPyard, E39's are ripe there these days and have plenty of useful relays and sockets in the E-Box and Trunk

In this way, you aren't on the hook for $100 every 7-8 years (even though that is a more-than-fair price for the work done), and we aren't reliant on a possibly limited supply of this specific relay made by 1 supplier (tyco).
Just my thought on how to correctly execute the repair. I'm someone who keeps cars well past the "normal" time period, so I expect I will have this car at least past the next time I wear out the relays. I enjoy the auto lock feature as well, so I am hard on the relays.

Just a note, these are rated to >10,000,000 cycles. If they were actually meeting that spec, we would need to be actuating them about 3,500 times per day to wear it out in 8 years.

My GM5 is starting to fail (doors don't unlock on command, even though the car "beeps" to acknowledge receipt of signal from the remote). I might give this a try, unless there is any reason not to.

Thank you soo much for the info ,ill start by replacing those top relays . Then see how that goes

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Originally Posted by redneckvtek

Just a note, these are rated to >10,000,000 cycles. If they were actually meeting that spec, we would need to be actuating them about 3,500 times per day to wear it out in 8 years.

The problem is the circuit design and the fact there is a DC motor being used to unlock the door. A DC motor has the MAX current draw at start up, often 10 times or more of the running current of the motor. So lets saw the running current of a DC motor is 2 Amps, the inrush could be 20+ Amps. Additionally these motors never really spin up, they are used more like short duration a stepper motor.

The problem is multifold with the door lock actuators, they use an electric motor that is ONLY used for a split second each activation, so the relay is always dealing with the Max Inrush current then the relay is opening while there is a lot of Inrush current being consumed and probably arcs heavily. Then the relay opens up while the high Inrush current is still being applied and there is probably a large secondary arc when the relay contacts open. These large arc currents are what likely kills the relay terminals in such a manner as we are seeing a high failure rate. Probably could use some capacitor or other components to help with this, but unclear if this would really work, a bit of experimenting would be required.

Sometimes a large Wattage 1 Ohm resistor in series could also help, but again, one would need to experiment and see what works and what does not.

If the car has the Auto Locking feature enabled and there car is used for a lot of short trips, the number of Lock and Unlock cycles will be high, sometimes disabling the Auto Locking feature can allow the GM5 relays to live a bit longer.

Jerry, we had similar issues on our 330xi. I installed a new 800CCA AGM battery and it righted the "isms" with the door locks.
regards

Originally Posted by 77'911

Jerry, we had similar issues on our 330xi. I installed a new 800CCA AGM battery and it righted the "isms" with the door locks.
regards

Just FYI, the new battery is probably just "masking" the GM5 relay problem for the moment, the relays are compromised and will continue to deteriorate with use and will become a problem in the future.

Suggest you purchase a set of relays if you or someone can do a good job soldering and have them ready, it is not IF but WHEN they will start to become a problem again.

2001 330XI
New AGM 860+CCA Battery

Problems:
Wiper Delay
Driver side rear window
Driver door lock (open)

All three issues current, intermittent with rear window. Sometimes the wiper delay will work, mostly not. Driver door lock, now I already replaced actuator, still didn't work. Then weird thing happened. Put key in door lock, it opened as usual, but before I could remove key, it locked again...? Did this a few times. Got in car by dropping windows and opening from inside handle. Put key in ignition, but for kicks, pressed keyfob and door locked/unlocked. Wow! Cool right!? Not to worry, a few day of enjoyment ended when the lock wouldn't open once again!

Additionally, seems that my radio reception has now also degraded... Related?

Anyways... Wonder if it's all associated with this module? Appreciate your assistance. TIA

Originally Posted by Cooolone

Anyways... Wonder if it's all associated with this module? Appreciate your assistance. TIA

Just a hunch, but you might have some wiring going to ground. Check for frayed insulation in the rubber boots where the wiring harnesses go through the doorjamb.

The rear wipers and radio reception have nothing to do with the general module.

The other problems are controlled by the general module, but, the immediate locking after unlocking does I do not believe is caused by the module. Was the replacement drivers door lock actuator a brand new genuine BMW part. Take the lock cylinder out and inspect it for smooth operation when turning with key and make sure the white circle on the actuator is in the center (use you finger in the hole where the lock cylinder was) before putting the lock cylinder back in. Also check the connectors to the general module for corrosion from water.


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Thank you for your responses, I had replied earlier but the message didn't post, sorry.

The actuator was new, but not BMW original. I will have to look and see what I ordered. But I will look at the cylinder as suggested being that I can feel what I'll call unusual resistance. If that fails I will look for frayed wiring... Hope it's not in the wiring though. Lol, we all know how much fun that'll be.

Again, thanks for the quick replies.

Took the cylinder out as it felt sticky in one direction, very subtle, but it was there. Of course the piece known to break was broken. Replaced piece ($6 kit), put it all back together and it seems too be working Greased everything too

Weird too because with cylinder out it appeared that the lock actuator wasn't moving with Key Fob...

Anyways, working for now.
Thanks again.

2002, 325i.
I removed the GM5 module and replaced the door lock relays and tested for continuity, It was easy as I am a EE and have the proper soldering equipment. I drove the car with the module removed. Now I have reinstalled the module and the windows and locks don't respond. Like the module is still removed. Any Ideas?