Optics and Mods Decision - Page 4 - E46Fanatics E46 BMW Social Directory E46 FAQ 3-Series Discussion Forums BMW Photo Gallery BMW 3-Series Technical Information E46 Fanatics - The Ultimate BMW Resource BMW Vendors General E46 Forum The Tire Rack's Tire Wheel Forum Forced Induction Forum The Off-Topic The E46 BMW Showroom For Sale, For Trade or Wanting to Buy

Go Back   E46Fanatics > Everything Else > The Off-Topic > Gun Talk

Gun Talk
Are you a gun fanatic as well? If so, you'll want to talk to other owners about what you own in this forum.

View Poll Results: Which Optic/Mod?
Kahles K16i 2 40.00%
Leupold VX-6 / Dinan Exhaust 1 20.00%
Vortex Razor / Dinan Exhaust 1 20.00%
Dinan Exhaust / Dinan Suspension / DINAN3 badge 1 20.00%
Voters: 5. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 01-06-2017, 01:09 PM   #61
M3Inline6
Law Enforcer
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Southern California
Posts: 2,092
My Ride: '17 Nardo Grey M4
Optics and Mods Decision

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reedo302 View Post
Nope, not familiar with them. Sorry.
Just got the Hammer's "nearly Burris identical" QD mount, and it's robust and solid. Surface mounting area is really good as well. It came with a picatinny mount upper ring option, allen wrench, etc. I'll post some photos of it in a few. For $58, it looks to be well worth the money.

Got my Sig Sauer Tango 6, Leupold VX-R and one of two mounts in (...still awaiting the American Defense QD mount that I ordered yesterday).







I can't thank Reedo enough for putting up with all of my questions over the past couple of weeks. Getting these items that he recommended in my hand - especially the Tango6 - really put things into perspective. The glass on this Tango6 is really awesome, especially compared to my Leupold VX-R, and the detail that went into its design shines through..........from the finish, to the tactile turret clicks (..and custom ballistic turret) to the tritium sights on the scope. It's such a real quality piece that I got for a steal.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwel on "Manhattan Project"
You heard of me.....burgandy and outlines like murder scenes; Germany..took ferns and flat whites for blurring greens.

Last edited by M3Inline6; 01-06-2017 at 03:42 PM.
M3Inline6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2017, 11:49 AM   #62
Reedo302
Registered User
 
Reedo302's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 8,298
My Ride: F30 328i M Sport
Glad you like the Tango6. I always get paranoid about recommending things to people and them not liking it.
__________________
DINAN3 F30 328i M Sport
DinanTronics Stage 1
Dinan Free Flow Black Tip Stainless Exhaust
Dinan Lowering Springs and Bumpstops
Dinan 20" Black Performance Wheels


Learning Firearms
Firearms training and hosted shooting courses


http://www.learningfirearms.com/schedule.html
Reedo302 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2017, 02:36 PM   #63
M3Inline6
Law Enforcer
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Southern California
Posts: 2,092
My Ride: '17 Nardo Grey M4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reedo302 View Post
Glad you like the Tango6. I always get paranoid about recommending things to people and them not liking it.
Love it! There's only one problem....................now I don't want my VX-R. LOL! I am going to return it and get the Whiskey5 2.4-12x56 for my .308/7.62x51mm.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwel on "Manhattan Project"
You heard of me.....burgandy and outlines like murder scenes; Germany..took ferns and flat whites for blurring greens.
M3Inline6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2017, 03:27 PM   #64
mcr_driver
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: los angeles
Posts: 15,438
My Ride: my favorite two feet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reedo302 View Post
Within the combat rifle roles, we break them down into a couple general categories of use.
CQB- Close Quarters Battle where the rifle will be used for close-range work out to 50-100yds. Usually incorporates non-magnified rapid-acquisition sights/optics like RDS
DMR- Designated Marksman Rifle/Role where the rifle can be used for minor CQB, but is set up with a low power magnified optics like the 1-4x/5x/6x/8x LPVO (low power variable optic).
SPR- Special Purpose Rifle- carbine cartride (5.56, 6.8SPC, 6.5Grendel, etc) rifle with medium-power magnified optics that specialize in midrange or long range engagement. Usually see these with 2.5-10x or 3-9x scopes.
SASS/SASR- Semi-Automatic Sniper System/Semi-Automatic Sniper Rifle that uses a heavier caliber like .308/7.62 and is capable of medium to long range engagement. Typically topped with a precision long range scope ranging anywhere from a 3-12x on up to a 5-25x.

When I look at my rifles, I sort of decide what role I want them to fill. This comes from my Army days where we had these distinctions. My LMT 308MWS is sort of sitting in a DMR role where I want to be able to engage at close range, but then want long range capability. This is why I'm looking at 8x magnification. I can comfortably engage out to 800yds with 8x, but still reduce the magnification to go shorter. When I was using it for long range precision only, I had a Hensoldt ZF 4-16x for it.
Point being, if you primarily plan to do target shooting or long range accuracy stuff, the 3-9x is going to be far more useful than a 1-6x. There is a substantial difference in what you see at distance with 9x over 3x. I have shot IPSC steel out to 575yds with 6x and it was not difficult, but I also shot that with a 5-20x Vortex Razor HD (Gen1) and it was MUCH easier at 20x. If you also plan to hunt with the rifle, magnification is your friend for longer shots or more accurate shot placement. If you just want to plink at close range, the 1-6x might work better.
That said, if you get QD mounts and get both scopes, you can easily swap out optics and just adjust the zero for the rifle, then set the zero back when you put it back on the original rifle.
Awesome breakdown, funny now that I look at my current optic options I feel I have a bit of redundancy. My sparc magnifier combo as well as the PST 1-4x both slot in to the cqb role but the PST has a bit more "distance" since it's a 4x optic. since my only uppers are 5.56, 223 wylde and 300 BO. I do plan to get a longer reaching upper but haven't decided on a 6.5grendel or 6.8SPC.

I recently got an ADM those things are well worth the money looking to get another one for when I get my next optic.
__________________
mcr_driver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2017, 04:51 PM   #65
M3Inline6
Law Enforcer
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Southern California
Posts: 2,092
My Ride: '17 Nardo Grey M4
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcr_driver View Post
Awesome breakdown, funny now that I look at my current optic options I feel I have a bit of redundancy. My sparc magnifier combo as well as the PST 1-4x both slot in to the cqb role but the PST has a bit more "distance" since it's a 4x optic. since my only uppers are 5.56, 223 wylde and 300 BO. I do plan to get a longer reaching upper but haven't decided on a 6.5grendel or 6.8SPC.



I recently got an ADM those things are well worth the money looking to get another one for when I get my next optic.


Good stuff! I want a .338 Lapua now. I've really dove down a dark rabbit's hole.


Sent from my iPhone using E46Fanatics mobile app
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwel on "Manhattan Project"
You heard of me.....burgandy and outlines like murder scenes; Germany..took ferns and flat whites for blurring greens.
M3Inline6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2017, 12:11 PM   #66
Reedo302
Registered User
 
Reedo302's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 8,298
My Ride: F30 328i M Sport
I really want a DesertTech SRS A1 in .260Rem and .338LM. I love precision shooting. Especially shooting steel.
My problem now is that I also have my LMT 308MWS that I want to get a 20" .260Rem barrel for. On the same token, I have my DesertTech MDR on the way. I changed my order and now have a 7.62 model on order. I don't want to get rid of my LMT, but if I could sell it, I'd be halfway to a Schmidt&Bender 1-8x ShortDot CC.
__________________
DINAN3 F30 328i M Sport
DinanTronics Stage 1
Dinan Free Flow Black Tip Stainless Exhaust
Dinan Lowering Springs and Bumpstops
Dinan 20" Black Performance Wheels


Learning Firearms
Firearms training and hosted shooting courses


http://www.learningfirearms.com/schedule.html
Reedo302 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2017, 08:33 AM   #67
M3Inline6
Law Enforcer
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Southern California
Posts: 2,092
My Ride: '17 Nardo Grey M4
Optics and Mods Decision

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reedo302 View Post
I really want a DesertTech SRS A1 in .260Rem and .338LM. I love precision shooting. Especially shooting steel.
My problem now is that I also have my LMT 308MWS that I want to get a 20" .260Rem barrel for. On the same token, I have my DesertTech MDR on the way. I changed my order and now have a 7.62 model on order. I don't want to get rid of my LMT, but if I could sell it, I'd be halfway to a Schmidt&Bender 1-8x ShortDot CC.


I've heard good things about S&B on SnipersHide. One of the scopes they were discussing used 1 CM adjustments, and the Sig Whiskey5 that I bought uses CM's too, so I was interested in the thread's discussion about MILS-to-CM conversions.


Sent from my iPhone using E46Fanatics mobile app
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwel on "Manhattan Project"
You heard of me.....burgandy and outlines like murder scenes; Germany..took ferns and flat whites for blurring greens.

Last edited by M3Inline6; 01-10-2017 at 08:36 AM.
M3Inline6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2017, 09:24 PM   #68
Reedo302
Registered User
 
Reedo302's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 8,298
My Ride: F30 328i M Sport
Scope Comparison
I was at the local gun shop and got my hands on some LPVOs that I'm looking to buy. With about 5-10 minutes on each scope, I decided to do a "First Impressions" review. I evaluated the following scopes:

EOTech Vudu 1-6x
Kahles K16i 1-6x
Leupold Mark6 1-6x
Trijicon AccuPower 1-8x
Trijicon VCOG 1-6x
Sig Sauer Tango6 1-6x SFP 3gun
Sig Sauer Tango6 1-6x FFP 5.56/7.62
Vortex Razor HD Gen2 1-6x


I evaluated the scopes based on the following criteria, ranking them out of 10:
Optical Quality (overall quality [resolution, light trans, color fidelity], eyebox, eye relief, FOV)
Illumination
Reticle
Features
Functionality/Execution of Concept
Value


For those of you who like the read the last page of the book first, I will spoil it now and tell you that the Kahles is a markedly superior optic to everything else tested.


#1. Kahles K16i

Optical Quality 10/10
Illumination 8/10
Reticle 9/10
Features 8/10
Functionality/Execution of Concept 10/10
Value 9/10
Total: 54/60

The Kahles was without at a doubt the winner by a wide margin in the optical quality category. Kahles is an Austrian company that is owned by Swarovski and is actually Swaro's MIL/LE division, so it makes sense that their glass is so amazing. Kahles uses Schott Glass from Germany, which is widely regarded as the best optical glass in the world. The edge-to-edge clarity was amazing, with zero distortion on the edges. The light transmission was amazing, I could see shadows and detail, and the color fidelity was vibrant and true with no signs of chromatic aberration. 1x was really 1x. The real amazement came from the 138' Field of View (FOV), which was substantially larger than any other competitor by a wide margin. I took the optic outside and it was nice there, but it really excelled inside the gun shop in a CQB-type environment. The eyebox was massive and very forgiving of eye position. So forgiving, in fact, that it was as close to an RDS/Aimpoint as any LPVO I've ever tried.

The illumination was daylight bright, close to where I think an Aimpoint would be on level 7 or so. The illumination is on a progressive dial that adjusts like parallax instead of the clicks of other scopes. This allows you to fine-tune the illumination, though I really doubt anyone will use this optic on anything less than full illumination. I wish the illumination was about 10% brighter, but it's most definitely capable. The reticle was the SM1 reticle, which is a SFP circle-dot center with a mil scale going down from the center dot. There are very heavy horizontal lines that are wide at the edge of the FOV, and narrow to a point at the edge of the outer center circle. This offers a very fast reference point for quick aiming as it pulls your eye to the center. This SM1 reticle is certainly capable of quick long range engagement, but the primary focus/purpose is obviously for close range rapid engagement with quick long shots using holdover.

In terms of design, the body is a 30mm tube and the turrets are low profile and capped. This is convenient for keeping the scope from snagging or getting damaged on things like barrels for 3-gun or web gear for tactical scenarios. The ocular housing is huge, the focus is the euro-style fast focus which works very well, and the power ring is exceptional. The power ring is smooth to shift, and it has an integrated fin or nub that acts like a shortened throw lever that allows you to quickly change magnifications. It's a very simple design, which is a good thing. This is primarily a CQB or close-to-midrange scope, and the scope accomplishes this well.

The cost of this optic is commensurate with the quality, and you're going to pay for that quality. At the gun shop, the optic was listed for $2299. The same optic is available online for $1999, which I think is a very good deal. It used to be online for $2200-$2300, and I suspect that this price drop is an indication of the future release of the K18i 1-8x to match the Swarovski Z8i 1-8x. Having said all of that, I think that it's worth every penny of whatever it costs. Obviously I think it's a much better value at $1999 than $2299, but the value here is relative due to the unmatched optical quality.





#2 Trijicon AccuPower

Optical Quality 8/10
Illumination 7/10
Reticle 9/10
Features 8/10
Functionality/Execution of Concept 9/10
Value 9/10
Total: 50/60

The AccuPower 1-8x is an exceptional deal. The optical quality is excellent Japanese glass, but you don't have that "pop" of amazing optical quality that you would see with a Euro scope. What you do have is excellent balance of the three main optical characteristics: resolution, light transmission and color fidelity. The resolution was the stand-out feature of the three, with an extremely sharp image quality. The eyebox was slightly tight, but given that this is a 1-8x scope, it's not something that is unexpected. The FOV sits at 109' at 100yds, which is the third widest of the group. This likely due to the larger 28mm objective lens (most LPVOs have 20mm or 24mm lenses) set into the 34mm main tube. The illumination is daylight visible, but it's not "Aimpoint bright". You can see the red, it stands out from the background and there is some pop of light in overcast conditions. In bright sunlight, you lose some of the benefit because it gets close to washing out the illumination. The problem with the illumination is that it's on a First Focal Plane (FFP) reticle, and I've mentioned before that scope companies have had significant difficulty illuminating FFP reticles to the same level as SFP (Second Focal Plane) reticles.

The reticle is either a milrad or MOA hash crosshairs, which lends to long range precision. The reticle also utilizes the Segmented Circle design, which has a thick outer segmented circle the encircles the center thick crosshair. When on 1x, this looks like a small circle-dot reticle, but then you increase the magnification to 8x and you have a useable crosshairs for long range milling and shooting. The major problem with the reticle is that the outer segmented circle gets YUUUUGE in the FOV as the reticle increases in size in the focal plane. This obstructs at least 1/4 of your FOV, and if you were to miss by more than a couple mils to the right or left, you likely wouldn't see your splash to make an adjustment. It's a necessary evil, but it's still mildly annoying.

Because it's a mil-based crosshairs, you make adjustments like any other long range scope using the windage and elevation dials. It has large low-profile adjustment turrets that lock, which is very important. As far as execution of concept, the scope seems to be designed as a mid-to-long-range precision scope that is CQB capable, which is opposite of the rest of the scopes listed. In that regard, I think they scored with the overall concept. The scope is long and heavier, so you have to consider that it may not be the most ideal LPVO if you intend to only do CQB or close range target shooting.

The cost of this optic is where the homerun exists, because it's the only sub-$2k 1-8x (that isn't a pile of cat shlt) scope. Online prices are $1445-$1699. This was $1499 at the gun shop. For $1445, I think that's absolutely unreal and probably one of the best deals here. The major draw for me is that I am certified as a LE Firearms Instructor, and that results in a discount of 40% off MSRP, which makes the AccuPoint a $1019 scope for me.



#3 Vortex Razor HD Gen2

Optical Quality 8/10
Illumination 9/10
Reticle 6/10
Features 8/10
Functionality/Execution of Concept 8/10
Value 9/10
Total: 48/60

The Razor is considered the Standard for LPVOs right now, and for two main reasons- excellent optical quality and it's daylight bright illumination. In terms of optical quality, it uses Japanese High Dispersion (HD) apochromatic glass, so you have top level glass at a more affordable price. The color, resolution and light transmission are all very good, and the FOV is the second largest at 115' @ 100yds. Overall, the optical quality is really amazing. The big letdown is the "blinking". When you move your eye side-to-side, the ocular lens "blinks" like an eye. When this happens, you can't see through the scope, and this is very problematic when shooting in asymmetrical shooting positions like say, rollover prone, urban prone or canted off a ledge or car hood/trunk. You have a tighter eyebox that should not exist in an optic like this, but I guess this is the trade-off for the excellent glass. Because of the tight eyebox, it got downgraded.

The illumination is easily daylight visible, and is Aimpoint bright (setting 7-8ish). The single center dot is responsible for this, as is the reticle being in the SFP. The reticle is sort of the let-down for this optic because of all of the options, they're all pretty lack-luster and short on frills. The VMR-1 and VMR-2 reticles are crude milling reticles in either 1mil or 4moa subtensions. This is basically useless on anything other than 6x, and at that point, you shouldn't be doing holdovers in mils because if you do for say, milrads, your subtensions from a 50yd BZO is 250yds, 350, 425, 500, etc for 55gr FMJ. That can get you Minute-of-Man accurate, but it's a bit too crude fro precision holdovers. The JM-1 is more specialized, but it still subtends to some goofy distances. Additionally, there are no markings on the reticle to give you quick reference of either distance or mils/moa. This forces you to count or to have to use a drop chart until you can fully memorize your holdovers. Vortex could have done a much better job on their reticles. In terms of features, I like the low profile tactical turrets that are capped, which is a great option. The ocular focus and illumination controls are also very simple and high quality.

This scope is highly functional and was executed well, but I think that it's much too 3-gun specific and should have some catering to tactical use with a better BDC reticle option. The major drawback is that this optic is a brick, weighing almost twice as much as the lightest tested optic (Kahles K16i). The price on this hovers around $1400, and I think that it's definitely worth the money given the features, high quality glass and bomb-proof construction



#4 Leupold Mark6

Optical Quality 9/10
Illumination 7/10
Reticle 9/10
Features 8/10
Functionality/Execution of Concept 7/10
Value 7/10
Total: 47/60

The Mark6 has exceptional glass and the optical quality is very good. You have edge to edge clarity with no distortion, good color fidelity and light transmission that allows for a bright image. The FOV is average at best, but at 105' it's about 24% smaller than the massive FOV of the Kahles. The eyebox is pretty large, and you can moderately adjust head position without loss of image. I have owned this scope in the past, and it worked great in asymmetrical shooting positions.

The reticle is the CMR-W 5.56 reticle, and it's in the first focal plane (FFP). For a BDC reticle, I firmly believe that the CMR-W is one of the best on the market. You have the addition of the "W" marks, which are 10mph and 20mph wind holdovers. I've found these pretty accurate in the 7.62 model. The problem is that I've previously detailed the problems people have with sufficiently illuminating an FFP reticle. The Mark6 uses a reflected illumination design, meaning that a light is bounced off a reflective reticle surface. As such, head position is key to seeing the illumination. If you move year head off-center, you lose the illumination. The brightness of the illumination is very much daylight visible and is one of the brightest scopes out there in that regard. It is Aimpoint bright. Unfortunately, it's too finicky for my needs since any type of shift in head positions leads to disappearing illumination.

In terms of features, the ocular housing is massive and long, and you have a ton of grip space to adjust magnification quickly. The Euro focus locks in place, which is a Leupold standard feature that should be copied by many other companies. The turrets adjust in 0.2mil increments, and they lock so that they can't be adjusted accidentally. The 34mm housing allows for a larger objective lens, allowing more light in.

I think that the concept of this scope was good, but they failed in one major aspect- FFP. This should have been built as a SFP scope. If they had done that, the Mark6 would have better illumination and it would probably be the best LPVO on the market. In terms of value, I'm not sure it's worth the $2199 price tag. The glass and construction are good enough to warrant the price, but I think that better deals exist for less money.




#5 Trijicon VCOG

Optical Quality 6/10
Illumination 7/10
Reticle 8/10
Features 9/10
Functionality/Execution of Concept 6/10
Value 6/10
Total: 41/60

The VCOG was really one of the early 1-6x optics with daylight visible illumination, and it's had the good Trijicon optical quality that we've seen with other scopes. Trijicon glass excels at resolution first and foremost, and in this case you see that with color fidelity and light transmission taking a back seat. The glass is clear and there's only very minor distortion at the edges of the lens, but the view is somewhat dark compared to other scopes. The bigger optical issue is the FOV, which is the smallest in this group at only 95' @ 100yds. This is a massive disadvantage in the close range/CQB environment, and when compared side-by-side with the AccuPower 1-8x, the AccuPower has markedly better CQB performance. The VCOG has a distinct tunneling effect.

The illumination is daylight bright at maximum illumination, and is about the same brightness as the AccuPower. Again, not Aimpoint bright, but you can see the illuminated reticle in the daytime. The issue is again that the reticle is in the first focal plane, and you lose some illumination intensity with that. As far as the reticle, you get the same expanding and annoyingly large center segmented circle at highest magnification, but the VCOG benefits from a BDC inner reticle that is similar to the BDCs they have on their ACOGs. I find this to be a very usable setup, and it's probably one of the better reticles on the market.

In terms of features, you have an integrated base that allows you to buy aftermarket QD mounting adapters at about half the price of a normal scope QD mount. The addition of the AA battery compartment gives it 700hrs of illumination at a medium setting. This is not bad, but not great either. There is a large fin on the ocular lens for fast magnification adjustment, the low profile turrets are capped. The integrated mount is a benefit or curse, depending on how you like to mount your optics. Personally, I think it's more of a benefit.

Overall, I think that the optic does okay, but it's not great. There is distinct lack of brightness and the color doesn't "pop". Additionally, the super-tight FOV is a hinderance to CQB operation. The VCOG was designed for multi-role DMR and rifleman employment, and in the long range game they succeeded sufficiently. I just think that this optic has a lot of shortcomings in the close range and low light arenas, which is kind of a big deal. This is another optic that should have been made SFP. The execution of concept is also hampered by the poor value of the optic. This thing is sold commercially for anywhere from $2000-$2400, and it's by no means worth that money. I think it's another .mil contract optic that didn't take off, and now they're stuck charging the commercial market the same inflated .mil price for it (as required by federal law).


#6 Sig Sauer Tango6 SFP 3-Gun

Optical Quality 7/10
Illumination 8/10
Reticle 6/10
Features 6/10
Functionality/Execution of Concept 6/10
Value 5/10
Total: 39/60


The main benefit to the SigSauer Tango6 is the glass quality. Sig doesn't confirm this information, but the Tango6 is supposedly using the same High Dispersion glass that was used to make the Vortex Razor Gen1. Given that it's the same scope company in Japan making these scopes, that shouldn't be a surprise. In looking through the glass, I am pretty certain it's the Gen1 glass and not the Gen2, as the Tango6 optical quality is lacking a little bit of resolution at 5-6x. The Razor Gen1 had a tendency to lose resolution at high magnification. Still, it's excellent optical quality and a solid contender in the optical quality category, minor outside distortion aside. The 107' FOV is also not too shabby.

The 3-Gun model has a milling crosshairs reticle in the second focal plane, and as such they can use similar LED lighting technology to what Vortex uses. This gives the optic a daylight visible center dot. The problem with the center dot is that it's insanely tiny, and also partially obscured by the reticle itself. Still, it's one of the brighter illuminations I've seen in a scope. Now speaking of the reticle, I think it's pretty worthless. Milling/hashed crosshairs on an LPVO are generally worthless if they only go up to 6x. They work on 8x scopes, but with a 6x, you don't have enough magnification to make accurate readings. Additionally, the lines are really thick, as they have to be in order to keep them visible. Unfortunately, that makes the reticle somewhat inaccurate.

As far as the rest of the scope, I have a lot of negatives here, but they need to be taken within context so bare with me. The features on this scope are pretty ill-conceived. You can tell that Sig was trying to make an "overly tactical" scope and put on all the bells and whistles to make it as shiny and tacticool as possible. There are two fiber optic rods on the magnification ring indicator, which are generally pointless. They say it's to quickly know what magnification you're on with a bright indicator, but people who use LPVOs use them on either 1x or top magnification only. Nobody uses an LPVO at 2x or 3x with any regularly or consistency, so it's pointless. Further, the external turrets are full size tactical turrets that are massive. The upside is that the turrets lock out.

For execution of concept, I think they swung for the fences and hit a fly ball. The scope has several deficiencies, and the features and reticle really screw this thing over. I just find a lot of the stuff on this scope to be unappealing. Sig Sauer made a valiant attempt, but it's quite obvious that this is their first real attempt at a high-end LPVO. The price tag is atrocious on this optic. Standard commercial price is $1399-$1499, which is absolutely over-priced. These were on sale not too long ago for $700-$800, and for that price they were probably the best deal on the internet. I think this is a solid $1000 scope at most, and anything over that is just too much.


#7 Sig Sauer Tango6 FFP 5.56/7.62 BDC

Optical Quality 7/10
Illumination 5/10
Reticle 8/10
Features 6/10
Functionality/Execution of Concept 5/10
Value 5/10
Total: 38/60

Not much is different between this and the SFP model, but the reticle and illumination are significantly different. The reticle is your typical BDC reticle with horseshoe/circle-dot center. This has proven functional and effective for LPVO use. The problem here is that the reticle is in the first focal plane, and Sig clearly has not developed the illumination technology to illuminate the reticle to any level of daytime brightness. It is very dim, and the illumination is only visible against a black background or in lowlight. The illumination on this thing is downright poor for this type of reticle.

Because this is a $1499 scope commercially, I think this is also a big swing and miss by Sig. I don't think they executed this concept very well. Again, we see another scope that could be very good if they would just make it SFP to begin with. At $700 for clearance/sale, I think this is again a great bargain just like the SFP model. At $1499, no way.



#7 EOTech Vudu

Optical Quality 7/10
Illumination 3/10
Reticle 6/10
Features 6/10
Functionality/Execution of Concept 3/10
Value 3/10
Total: 28/60

Two words: DUMPSTER FIRE. I want to like this scope, and my hopes were high. EOTech found another way to disappoint. The glass was decent enough, though I found some noticeable distortion around the edges at all magnifications. The resolution and color fidelity were decent, but the optic was somewhat dark. This is again going to play into the design, and another indicator to this design weakness if the 102' FOV, which is the second smallest FOV. The glass was decent enough, and if they made other changes, they could get away with not messing with the glass.

The reticle was the SR2 reticle, which at 1x looks like their 65moa circle around a center dot that everyone loves. It's set in the FFP, and when you crank it to 6x, that outer circle disappears completely and the center dot expands to reveal a full circle-dot center reticle with 600yd BDC stadia. This seems like a genius idea at first glance, but the problem here is that the circle dot is so large at 6x that the BDC stadia only goes from 400-600. If you zero at 50 or 100yds, you have no aiming points from 200-400yds; only 400 and beyond. This is not a recipe for precision.

In terms of features, I liked the capped turrets and that ridges on the ocular housing for fast magnification changes. The problem is that the ocular housing is too smooth and you will lose grip on it if it gets wet or your hands get cold. The scope does feel solid, and it's pretty simplistic; which I don't mind in an LPVO. The illumination adjustment is a set of rubber push buttons on the left side turret housing. This seems innovative and smart, but I question the durability. There is a reason why companies like SureFire, who make rubber tape switches for lights, do not warranty their switches due to them being wear items and having high failure rates. The Vudu's rubber buttons appear to be of the same quality as a tape switch.

Now here's where it gets really bad- this optic was slated to be like an EOTech inside of a scope. Unfortunately the illumination is so dim that you can't see anything in bright light. I mean seriously- YOU HAD ONE JOB TO DO. Even against a black background, you can barely see anything at max illumination. This scope easily had the worst illumination in the group, and it's the worst illumination I've seen in a scope of this price. The FFP illumination game is tricky, and EOTech never should have done this. It's better to have not put out the product than to have crashed and burned so hard. These things retail from $1000-$1400, and quite frankly I'd only pay half of that. Scopes at $700-$800 like the Burris XTR-II 1-5x and Leupold VX-6HD 1-6 are far more of a bargain and have much better illumination, reticle and design than the Vudu.
__________________
DINAN3 F30 328i M Sport
DinanTronics Stage 1
Dinan Free Flow Black Tip Stainless Exhaust
Dinan Lowering Springs and Bumpstops
Dinan 20" Black Performance Wheels


Learning Firearms
Firearms training and hosted shooting courses


http://www.learningfirearms.com/schedule.html

Last edited by Reedo302; 04-25-2017 at 09:38 PM.
Reedo302 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2017, 03:40 PM   #69
Reedo302
Registered User
 
Reedo302's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 8,298
My Ride: F30 328i M Sport
Scored a massive deal on SampleList

__________________
DINAN3 F30 328i M Sport
DinanTronics Stage 1
Dinan Free Flow Black Tip Stainless Exhaust
Dinan Lowering Springs and Bumpstops
Dinan 20" Black Performance Wheels


Learning Firearms
Firearms training and hosted shooting courses


http://www.learningfirearms.com/schedule.html
Reedo302 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Censor is OFF



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:24 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
(c) 1999 - VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.