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Old 12-11-2016, 10:57 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Cabrio330 View Post
Sorry, I've not seen any indictments so clearly there has been no crime, so you should move along. #DhumbassLogic
Investigations' are just beginning, not completed, so stay tuned Mr. False Equivalency as this might get real interesting.
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Old 12-11-2016, 11:22 AM   #22
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Well, hacking is a crime...so, even if the info was selectively released, so what? So someone meddled in our elections, Soros does it all the time, this is nothing new. The people received information and used it to cast a ballot, simple as that. Yes hacking is wrong, no one is going to deny that, that doesn't change the process. The media meddles in our elections as well, by putting out false/selective information, and yet we are ok with that.
Just so I understand, you're saying that Putin, through theft, espionage is essentially equivalent to the normal, Constitutionally-protected functions of our free press? Or anyone simply openly voicing a political opinion?

You're muddled ends-justifies-the-means, voter information transparency argument might have more legitimacy had that actually been what happened - Wikileaks dumping all at once both the hacked Dem and GOP data simultaneously rather than strategically releasing just one party's negative data to cause the most harm to that party and benefit the other. That goes far beyond some noble free-data argument.

Another aspect is that what damaging data does Putin have on Trump and the GOP and to what end is he holding that close to his vest? Political pressure, manipulation and even blackmail come immediately to mind.

Is Trump, with his notoriously opaque business/financial dealings, in hock and thus beholden to Russian business and political interests? He certainly is advocating a very conspicuously pro-Russian line of rhetoric, nominees and policies.

I presume, by the same logic you are using to excuse and normalize the Dem hacks and selective releases by Putin-proxy, Wikileaks, are hoping for similar hacks and releases of Trump's and the GOP's data? Should the people receive this information too?

Are you similarly advocating a Trump data-dump by some disgruntled IRS employee or Trump accountant?
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Old 12-11-2016, 11:38 AM   #23
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I appreciate whatever true information I receive. Sometimes I am troubled by the implications of how that information was obtained.

That's it.
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Old 12-11-2016, 12:06 PM   #24
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We only allow Mexico, the EU and Saudi Arabia to meddle in our elections!
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Old 12-11-2016, 12:10 PM   #25
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We only allow Mexico, the EU and Saudi Arabia to meddle in our elections!
And now, at the acquiescence of conservatives, Russia, bigly.
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Old 12-11-2016, 12:12 PM   #26
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I appreciate whatever true information I receive. Sometimes I am troubled by the implications of how that information was obtained.

That's it.
Perhaps the provenance of that information should be first considered before deeming it "true."
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Old 12-11-2016, 12:12 PM   #27
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Perhaps the provenance of that information should be first considered before deeming it "true."
My statement is self-affirming. Deeming something as true should only come at the end of such an inquiry.
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Old 12-11-2016, 12:17 PM   #28
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My statement is self-affirming. Deeming something as true should only come at the end of such an inquiry.
That's not the process that the average angry conservative voter uses, unfortunately.
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Old 12-11-2016, 12:18 PM   #29
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That's not the process that the average angry conservative voter uses, unfortunately.
Have you reviewed the underlying evidence to ascertain whether your accusation is, in fact, true before making it?
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Old 12-11-2016, 12:20 PM   #30
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Have you reviewed the underlying evidence to ascertain whether your accusation is, in fact, true before making it?
I took it all at face value. I reviewed the supporting claims. It did sway my vote away from Clinton... but not for Trump.
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Old 12-11-2016, 12:21 PM   #31
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I took it all at face value. I reviewed the supporting claims. It did sway my vote away from Clinton... but not for Trump.
That seems reasonable to me.

EDIT: I meant your accusation about the "average conservative voter"'s thought process. I am guessing that you didn't actually do much research or analysis of how conservatives think before saying what you said.

Last edited by VaderDave; 12-11-2016 at 12:23 PM.
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Old 12-11-2016, 12:30 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Act of God View Post
We only allow Mexico, the EU and Saudi Arabia to meddle in our elections!
Great commentary, Steve.
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Old 12-11-2016, 12:36 PM   #33
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That seems reasonable to me.

EDIT: I meant your accusation about the "average conservative voter"'s thought process. I am guessing that you didn't actually do much research or analysis of how conservatives think before saying what you said.
I have rabid conservative family members that have been sending me debunked stories about Obama for years... and this past election cycle there was no way to talk sense into them. Every time I debunked their stories my facts were dismissed as liberal media and not to be trusted. This same sentiment was witnessed all over social media... and by the president elect.

Years of personal experiences do equate to research and analysis...
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Last edited by joeski3d; 12-11-2016 at 12:37 PM.
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Old 12-11-2016, 12:44 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by joeski3d View Post
Years of personal experiences do equate to research and analysis...

Actually, it equates to anecdotal evidence so it means jack sh!t.


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Old 12-11-2016, 12:46 PM   #35
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Actually, it equates to anecdotal evidence so it means jack sh!t.


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Does it mean "jack ****" to you because it hits too close to the mark? Granted, some of the Trump supporting posters on e46 are a bit better at determining fact from fiction in the news... but not all of them.
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Old 12-11-2016, 12:57 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by joeski3d View Post
I have rabid conservative family members that have been sending me debunked stories about Obama for years... and this past election cycle there was no way to talk sense into them. Every time I debunked their stories my facts were dismissed as liberal media and not to be trusted. This same sentiment was witnessed all over social media... and by the president elect.

Years of personal experiences do equate to research and analysis...
How many family members are we talking about here? How many stories?
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Old 12-11-2016, 12:58 PM   #37
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I don't remember such outrage when Obama meddled in Netanyahu's election lol.
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Old 12-11-2016, 01:00 PM   #38
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How many family members are we talking about here? How many stories?
15 off the top of my head... and FB is their echo chamber.
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Old 12-11-2016, 01:01 PM   #39
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Does it mean "jack ****" to you because it hits too close to the mark? Granted, some of the Trump supporting posters on e46 are a bit better at determining fact from fiction in the news... but not all of them.

No, it means jack sh!t because it's just your weirdo family being weirdos yet here we are with you considering it "research and analysis". It's not.


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Old 12-11-2016, 01:05 PM   #40
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No, it means jack sh!t because it's just your weirdo family being weirdos yet here we are with you considering it "research and analysis". It's not.
You don't know jack sh!t about my family... so your research on the subject is pretty null and void.
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