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Old 12-05-2017, 08:33 AM   #21
turbo1168
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Canon has essentially 3 lines of removable lens cameras currently. The Rebel series, which are the entry level, they are the "T" series. Mid range, 2 digits "D" series (70D, 80D, etc.) and the "pro" series single digit "D" series (7D, 6D, 5D, 1D). The numbers increment up in the bottom 2 series as new models come out, the T4 came before the T5 which came before the T6 and so on. In the pro series, they use "mark", like mark2 mark3. Personally, I would stay out of the Rebel line mainly because some of the buttons used on the upper Canon lines are removed and you have to go to the menus and find the setting that way. Can be frustrating to pull the camera away from your eye to set something that would be a quick change normally without even taking the camera from your face.

Canon has a refurb store and regularly restock and have sales from that store. They still have the 70D and 18-135 combo occasionally but currently out of stock. For about the same money, you can go on E-bay or Craigslist and find an older pro series camera, 5D 1st gen (they are up to mark 4 now), 7D 1st gen or even a previous 1D. Get a nifty 50 for $100 and go learn. 5D (also 1D and 6D) is full frame meaning make sure any lens you buy does not say EF-S as those are designed for crop cameras with a smaller sensor.

https://www.canonpricewatch.com/ Sign up here and they send emails anytime there is a sale. Great resource for Canon specific stuff.
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Old 12-05-2017, 09:42 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by cowmoo32 View Post
Agreed. A prime lens like the 50 will force you to think about composition as well; you can't just zoom and shoot, you actually have to move around to frame the shot correctly. Plus it's the best glass out there for the money.

After shooting film on a body from the 70s for a couple years, I started with the original Rebel, like, the very first one. By today's standards it's hot garbage but I will gladly put up some of my best shots from it against my more modern (but still pretty old) 40D.
I learned on a Pentax K1000 back in the day. Wouldn't have had it any other way. Forces you to learn the basics. I always suggest people start out with a more basic dslr. Work on composure, developing your photographers' eye, learn the exposure triangle. After you figure out what you're doing you should know what you NEED in a more advanced body so you can make your own informed decision instead of buying something just because it was suggested to you.
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Old 12-05-2017, 09:59 AM   #23
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You need the D series or comparable gear (and a worthy lens or two) if you want to grow into serious or even semi-serious photography, as many have said above. That's not going "hog wild," that's getting better quality and better performance. And I see you understand the value proposition: Which is why you paid $4K for a guitar instead of a thousand. Or two. You damn well know you can get a perfectly serviceable guitar for a fraction of four grand, but you went with something better, right? Same with cameras.

Save a few more bucks before you take the plunge (and Christmas sales are coming, which may meet or beat your "employee pricing"). You don't want to be stuck with something that will frustrate you once you get started...
I would bet a lot of money that the $4k guitar is not his first and he's not only thinking about dabbling in playing one before dropping that kind of cash into an instrument.

AoG, if you want my opinion, go for the Rebel T7i and start learning. The glass you put on the front is FAR more important than the body you use. You should learn the basics of exposure, depth of field, what ISO means, composition, what a crop factor is, and other things before you go and spend thousands on a body like some are suggesting. I started with a Rebel XT way back in the day and, as moo says, I'd happily toss some of those shots up against my A7II from a month ago. The big benefit is running higher end glass which WILL give you better results no matter what.

Once you decide you like it and actually find situations where your camera body itself is holding you back, then go and upgrade. The big thing is don't upgrade for the sake of upgrading, do it because you're missing opportunities because of your equipment. Until then, it's you that's holding your work back and not your equipment.
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Old 12-05-2017, 10:13 AM   #24
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I didn't read through the full thread, but if you plan on getting more serious with photography get a body that is full frame. I originally had a rebel years ago, upgraded to a 5D Mark II and there is a huge difference, would love to upgrade further but I don't take enough photos to justify the money spent.

A good body won't be cheap, but the glass is where the real money is spent.
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Old 12-05-2017, 10:55 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamDoe1 View Post
I would bet a lot of money that the $4k guitar is not his first and he's not only thinking about dabbling in playing one before dropping that kind of cash into an instrument.

AoG, if you want my opinion, go for the Rebel T7i and start learning. The glass you put on the front is FAR more important than the body you use. You should learn the basics of exposure, depth of field, what ISO means, composition, what a crop factor is, and other things before you go and spend thousands on a body like some are suggesting. I started with a Rebel XT way back in the day and, as moo says, I'd happily toss some of those shots up against my A7II from a month ago. The big benefit is running higher end glass which WILL give you better results no matter what.

Once you decide you like it and actually find situations where your camera body itself is holding you back, then go and upgrade. The big thing is don't upgrade for the sake of upgrading, do it because you're missing opportunities because of your equipment. Until then, it's you that's holding your work back and not your equipment.
Thanks dude, I'm inclined to agree with your assessment. As for guitar, I have about 20 and have been playing since 12 years old. I've never taken a photograph that wasn't with a phone, disposable, Polaroid or point and shoot.

The t6 is mostly tempting due to price and 2 lenses, but they're probably slow speed lenses anyway.
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Old 12-05-2017, 12:40 PM   #26
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Thanks dude, I'm inclined to agree with your assessment. As for guitar, I have about 20 and have been playing since 12 years old. I've never taken a photograph that wasn't with a phone, disposable, Polaroid or point and shoot.

The t6 is mostly tempting due to price and 2 lenses, but they're probably slow speed lenses anyway.
The biggest tangible advantage of the T7 over the T6 is the better image processor. The T7 uses the 7th gen and the T6 the 6th gen. Also, the T7 has a newer sensor that's likely better able to handle higher ISO images without as much noise. I honestly haven't paid a ton of attention to entry level stuff in years but I'd for sure get the newest one you can, it'll be worth the extra cost.

In regards to lenses, all of those are sh1t. Look into body only instead of kits and just buy a 50mm f/1.8 to use as a learning tool. You don't get any zoom but it forces you to learn how to compose the hard way. If you want a zoom, I'd suggest a 24-70 of some variety and go with that. The only point of a kit lens is to show you what more you want in a real lens as they have all the shortcomings possible for a lens all bundled into one small flimsy plastic package.

You have 20 guitars? Damn. I have three and I don't even come close to using them as often as I'd like.

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Old 12-05-2017, 12:48 PM   #27
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These are the ones I keep at home



I have a problem lol, 2 new ones since this picture
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Old 12-05-2017, 01:08 PM   #28
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These are the ones I keep at home



I have a problem lol, 2 new ones since this picture
Nice collection, a few really nice ones in there. I just have an Ibanez RG, a Yamaha acoustic, and a sh1tty learning Ibanez that I got for my very first that I only keep around for sentimental reasons.

We all have problems. My newest addiction is woodworking tools, they are quickly filling my garage...
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Old 12-05-2017, 01:10 PM   #29
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The awful washing out and clarity of this picture is one of the reasons I'm seeking camera advice. That was taken with an LG G4 and fv camera app
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Old 12-05-2017, 01:17 PM   #30
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The awful washing out and clarity of this picture is one of the reasons I'm seeking camera advice. That was taken with an LG G4 and fv camera app
You know what? Here are two pictures. One was taken with a Canon Rebel XT circa 2006 (camera age, not photo age) and one was taken with a Sony A7II circa 2015 (again, camera age). Tell me which one is which without looking at the EXIF data:



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Old 12-05-2017, 01:20 PM   #31
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Don’t get too hung up on gear. The consumer DSLR market improved drastically in terms of resolution and quality over the last 10 years, but is starting to plateau in terms of what it can deliver in real world use.

Get something that will last you the next 5 years. Someone already mentioned the 80D, and that absolutely will.

Try to get a prime lens. It will hone your discipline a lot quicker than a wide/tele, and really make you think about composition and execution. The Canon 1.8 50mm is a charm. Cheap and cheerful. The 2.8 24mm would be a good companion for it as you’ll find yourself stepping back and back with the 50mm until you run out of space.

Over time you could upgrade to different apertures or focal lengths depending on what you find yourself photographing. Canon’s L range is good – but some L lenses are just poor value for money, and competitors like Samyang are stern competition. Their 1.4 35mm is insane.


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Old 12-05-2017, 08:20 PM   #32
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Any camera that allows you to set the white balance is a good start for you.


Not even a factor with any camera including iPhones that allow you to shoot raw.
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Old 12-05-2017, 09:30 PM   #33
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You know what? Here are two pictures. One was taken with a Canon Rebel XT circa 2006 (camera age, not photo age) and one was taken with a Sony A7II circa 2015 (again, camera age). Tell me which one is which without looking at the EXIF data:



top is canon

bottom is sony

amirite? Sonys have a particular look to them...
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Old 12-05-2017, 09:32 PM   #34
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I can't tell but top looks better quality?
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Old 12-05-2017, 11:01 PM   #35
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You wont be able to tell quality on the interwebs, you'd need to pixel peep the full res files to really tell the difference.
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Old 12-06-2017, 08:48 AM   #36
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top is canon

bottom is sony

amirite? Sonys have a particular look to them...
urite.

This guy wins a fake internet award of the day.

I don't think it's Sonys specifically, it's more full frame vs crop that have a distinct difference.

Where the difference would be readily apparent is if these images were shot in the dark. The Sony would have wiped the floor with the Canon at any ISO over base.

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I can't tell but top looks better quality?
The top is the older and (much) cheaper camera. My point is that it's mostly about the user and not the body. Get a nice basic one to start with and you can still produce great images. It doesn't really matter for you if you get a $7k Canon 1DX body only because you don't know enough to fully use the capabilities. The camera has very little to do with the ability to not get washed out and sh1t images, it has everything to do with your ability to get a clean shot. The nicer cameras will make it easier but it won't negate the issue completely by themselves.

I thought of this on the way in but if you want to go mirrorless (smaller, lighter, easier to carry, etc), you can get the Sony A6000 with kit lens for about $600 without an employee discount. The image quality will be comparable to or better than the Rebels. Downside is that the lens selection is a lot more expensive when you want to upgrade if you have any intention of going full frame in the future. The Sony crop lenses are good and cheap(er) though.

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Old 12-06-2017, 09:17 AM   #37
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Feels like I should split the baby and go 7ti
Canon T7i is a great overall value. Better than average at a great price point.

Canon holds its value well so even if you want to upgrade later, you can.

I have probably upgraded/downgraded 10 times.

Don't confuse the i cameras with the no i cameras.

T7 is not a T7i.

STM lenses are also fantastic values.
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Old 12-06-2017, 10:23 AM   #38
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Not even a factor with any camera including iPhones that allow you to shoot raw.
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Old 12-06-2017, 01:16 PM   #39
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DSLRs have really come a long way in the last 5, 10, 15 years, especially the sensors. Don't get hung up on gear and specs at this point. Even basic DSLRs today are more than enough to learn with.

Being a total beginner, you can't go wrong with the Rebel. I would also suggest taking a course of some kind in order to understand the basics.

A camera is just a tool - a means to an end. If you get more serious about photography, you will know when it's time for new gear. Racing drivers don't start learning in Ferraris.
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Old 12-07-2017, 07:33 AM   #40
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Alright got the T7i kit and a 50mm 1.8, came with a "free" case and "free' 16GB memory card. Thanks guys, now I just have to learn how to use the damn thing.
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