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Old 01-04-2019, 08:27 AM   #21
Cabrio330
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Originally Posted by bimmerfan08 View Post
"Identity politics has done more to disenfranchise individual thought, erode effective civil discourse and encourage hate than, perhaps, any other single recent factor in American society. And, it should be noted, identity politics was promoted for decades before Donald Trump entered the political stage."
You should make that your signature.

I will always take idea politics over identity politics.
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Old 01-04-2019, 10:52 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Cabrio330 View Post
...because how people look is more important than how they think.
Certainly not, which is why nobody suggested this except perhaps you (strawman).

However, the different "looks," as you put it, are emblematic of a greater range and diversity of thought, better reflecting a fuller range of the American people, than past Congresses. Well, this is true of one party at least. The other? Its constricting into but one aging, shrinking demographic with an accompanying moldering, dated and narrow range of thought.

Examples:
  • While 52% of the 67 incoming House Democratic freshmen are female, only two, or 4.5% of the 44 incoming Republican freshmen are women. Republicans saw their roster of female House representatives gutted 43% from 23 members to 13.
  • In the Senate, 17 of the women serving are Democrats and eight are Republicans. In the House, 89 women are Democrats, and 13 are Republicans.
  • The gains in representation for people of color are heavily concentrated in the Democratic Party. A full 34% of the incoming House Democrats but 2% of their Republican colleagues identify as people of color. Anthony Gonzalez of Ohio will be the only incoming non-white freshman Republican.
  • Among the 200 Republicans in the 116th House, 90% will be white men.
  • The 116th Congress includes the first two Muslim women ever to serve: Rep. Ilhan Omar of Minnesota and Rep. Rashida Tlaib of Michigan. (Trigger warning for AOG)
  • More than 99 percent of Republicans identify as Christian compared to 78 percent of Democrats. Less than 1 percent of GOP members are Jewish, while over 11 percent of Democrats say the same. All Buddhists, Muslims, Hindus and religiously unaffiliated lawmakers are Democrats.
  • The 115th House was one of the oldest in history, but 2018 midterms also ushered in a wave of younger Gen X'ers and Millennials elected to Congress. Now, the average age of a member of the House will decrease a full decade from 57 to 47.

Sources. Business Insider, U.S. News
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Old 01-04-2019, 10:55 AM   #23
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Claims he doesn't subscribe to identity politics, makes diarrhea post promoting identity politics
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Old 01-04-2019, 10:56 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by bimmerfan08 View Post
"Identity politics has done more to disenfranchise individual thought, erode effective civil discourse and encourage hate than, perhaps, any other single recent factor in American society. And, it should be noted, identity politics was promoted for decades before Donald Trump entered the political stage."
With white Christian male identity being by far the oldest, most entrenched, (disproportionately) largest, and dominant.
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Old 01-04-2019, 10:59 AM   #25
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Good thing they never created anything here
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Old 01-04-2019, 11:07 AM   #26
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...because how people look is more important than how they think.
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Originally Posted by Rhumb View Post
Certainly not, which is why nobody suggested this except perhaps you (strawman).

However, the different "looks," as you put it, are emblematic of a greater range and diversity of thought, better reflecting a fuller range of the American people, than past Congresses. Well, this is true of one party at least. The other? Its constricting into but one aging, shrinking demographic with an accompanying moldering, dated and narrow range of thought.

Examples:
  • While 52% of the 67 incoming House Democratic freshmen are female, only two, or 4.5% of the 44 incoming Republican freshmen are women. Republicans saw their roster of female House representatives gutted 43% from 23 members to 13.
  • In the Senate, 17 of the women serving are Democrats and eight are Republicans. In the House, 89 women are Democrats, and 13 are Republicans.
  • The gains in representation for people of color are heavily concentrated in the Democratic Party. A full 34% of the incoming House Democrats but 2% of their Republican colleagues identify as people of color. Anthony Gonzalez of Ohio will be the only incoming non-white freshman Republican.
  • Among the 200 Republicans in the 116th House, 90% will be white men.
  • The 116th Congress includes the first two Muslim women ever to serve: Rep. Ilhan Omar of Minnesota and Rep. Rashida Tlaib of Michigan. (Trigger warning for AOG)
  • More than 99 percent of Republicans identify as Christian compared to 78 percent of Democrats. Less than 1 percent of GOP members are Jewish, while over 11 percent of Democrats say the same. All Buddhists, Muslims, Hindus and religiously unaffiliated lawmakers are Democrats.
  • The 115th House was one of the oldest in history, but 2018 midterms also ushered in a wave of younger Gen X'ers and Millennials elected to Congress. Now, the average age of a member of the House will decrease a full decade from 57 to 47.

Sources. Business Insider, U.S. News


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Claims he doesn't subscribe to identity politics, makes diarrhea post promoting identity politics
He is beyond parody.
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Old 01-04-2019, 11:40 AM   #27
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Good thing they never created anything here
Thank you for your promotion of the white Christian male identity.
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Old 01-04-2019, 11:44 AM   #28
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Claims he doesn't subscribe to identity politics, makes diarrhea post promoting identity politics
For the record, I never made that claim, which is ironic assertion coming from you, the premier subscriber to and promoter of white Christian male identity politics (and vehement denigrater of those outside that identity)
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Old 01-04-2019, 11:50 AM   #29
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I will always take idea politics over identity politics.
You say that as if they are mutually exclusive.
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Old 01-04-2019, 11:51 AM   #30
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For the record, I never made that claim, which is ironic assertion coming from you, the premier subscriber to and promoter of white Christian male identity politics (and vehement denigrater of those outside that identity)
Lol, wut? Let's rewind the tape, shall we?

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Looks like the House is starting to more closely reflect America demographically.

Well, one party at least...
Please explain how "reflect America demographically" isn't about identity.
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Old 01-04-2019, 01:03 PM   #31
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I will always take idea politics over identity politics.
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Old 01-04-2019, 01:11 PM   #32
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Lol, wut? Let's rewind the tape, shall we?

Please explain how "reflect America demographically" isn't about identity.
Simply a factual claim. You can read whatever else into you want.
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Old 01-04-2019, 01:16 PM   #33
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Please explain how "reflect America demographically" isn't about identity.
If you were to suggest that the republican party represents America's demographics, then our nation is comprised 90% of old white wealthy men. Show your statistical data.
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Last edited by joeski3d; 01-04-2019 at 01:20 PM.
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Old 01-04-2019, 01:18 PM   #34
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It seems a few of our conservative friends here presume the overwhelmingly predominant white Christian male identity to simply be some neutral, natural ground state with any other varying identity being some sort of aberration from that dominant norm.

Sadly, many are having a very hard time sharing political power as equals -- hence the immense appeal of Trump to that demographic/identity.

What's the saying, “When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression."
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Old 01-04-2019, 01:22 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Rhumb View Post
Certainly not, which is why nobody suggested this except perhaps you (strawman).

However, the different "looks," as you put it, are emblematic of a greater range and diversity of thought, better reflecting a fuller range of the American people, than past Congresses. Well, this is true of one party at least. The other? Its constricting into but one aging, shrinking demographic with an accompanying moldering, dated and narrow range of thought.

Examples:
  • While 52% of the 67 incoming House Democratic freshmen are female, only two, or 4.5% of the 44 incoming Republican freshmen are women. Republicans saw their roster of female House representatives gutted 43% from 23 members to 13.
  • In the Senate, 17 of the women serving are Democrats and eight are Republicans. In the House, 89 women are Democrats, and 13 are Republicans.
  • The gains in representation for people of color are heavily concentrated in the Democratic Party. A full 34% of the incoming House Democrats but 2% of their Republican colleagues identify as people of color. Anthony Gonzalez of Ohio will be the only incoming non-white freshman Republican.
  • Among the 200 Republicans in the 116th House, 90% will be white men.
  • The 116th Congress includes the first two Muslim women ever to serve: Rep. Ilhan Omar of Minnesota and Rep. Rashida Tlaib of Michigan. (Trigger warning for AOG)
  • More than 99 percent of Republicans identify as Christian compared to 78 percent of Democrats. Less than 1 percent of GOP members are Jewish, while over 11 percent of Democrats say the same. All Buddhists, Muslims, Hindus and religiously unaffiliated lawmakers are Democrats.
  • The 115th House was one of the oldest in history, but 2018 midterms also ushered in a wave of younger Gen X'ers and Millennials elected to Congress. Now, the average age of a member of the House will decrease a full decade from 57 to 47.

Sources. Business Insider, U.S. News
Gonna have to revisit my previous post in response of this post. The irony here...

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Just reaching for the at this point
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Old 01-04-2019, 01:31 PM   #36
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I guess I'm having a hard time pinning down why "identity politics" is automatically a bad thing (a pejorative term, so to speak). People vote for people they perceive as being "like" them, whatever that means. Sometimes it's going to mean voting for a person who looks nothing like you but with whom you share deeply held philosophical positions. Sometimes it means voting for a person who comes from a similar background or class. Sometimes it means voting for a person who speaks like you do or in a way that appeals to you. Sometimes it means voting for a person who dresses or looks like you. Sometimes it just means voting for a person who is the same race you are.

Nobody is immune from that. Anyone who disses "identity politics" is simply kidding himself.
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Old 01-04-2019, 01:44 PM   #37
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I guess I'm having a hard time pinning down why "identity politics" is automatically a bad thing (a pejorative term, so to speak). People vote for people they perceive as being "like" them, whatever that means. Sometimes it's going to mean voting for a person who looks nothing like you but with whom you share deeply held philosophical positions. Sometimes it means voting for a person who comes from a similar background or class. Sometimes it means voting for a person who speaks like you do or in a way that appeals to you. Sometimes it means voting for a person who dresses or looks like you. Sometimes it just means voting for a person who is the same race you are.

Nobody is immune from that. Anyone who disses "identity politics" is simply kidding himself.
Agreed. Seems like "identity politics," whatever that actually means, seems to mean somebody else voting for their interests. It's basically become some fatuous right wing screed against non-conservatives voting for their interests. Of course, right-wingers voting for their parochial interests is somehow fully right and the natural way of things in their eyes, when, say, the white evangelical voting bloc is the very definition of "identity politics."
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Old 01-04-2019, 02:06 PM   #38
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https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...tez-70-percent

AOC proposes a top marginal tax rate of 70-ish percent on income over about $10M.

She certainly knows how to grab the limelight. I must admit that I find the analysis in the article interesting and somewhat persuasive.
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Old 01-04-2019, 02:09 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by VaderDave View Post
I guess I'm having a hard time pinning down why "identity politics" is automatically a bad thing (a pejorative term, so to speak). People vote for people they perceive as being "like" them, whatever that means. Sometimes it's going to mean voting for a person who looks nothing like you but with whom you share deeply held philosophical positions. Sometimes it means voting for a person who comes from a similar background or class. Sometimes it means voting for a person who speaks like you do or in a way that appeals to you. Sometimes it means voting for a person who dresses or looks like you. Sometimes it just means voting for a person who is the same race you are.

Nobody is immune from that. Anyone who disses "identity politics" is simply kidding himself.
Identity politics is nothing more than voting for someone because of their gender, race or religion, which is the exact context presented by Dhumb. How else to interpret his heralding of the demographic composition of the House?

You give him more credit than he is due by introducing the concept of similar thought or ideas. He did not herald that in his post about the House.

Put simply, people like Dhumb consider identity (race, gender, religion) as traits worthy of voting for, presumably to the exclusion of other traits. If I am wrong, then what was the purpose of his post listing the new members by gender, race, etc.?

I am not saying identity politics is a bad thing, or that people don't vote that way. I am saying it should not be something to consider over ideas. I am not sure why people have a hard time with this. But I guess if you want your politicians to match exactly the race, gender and religious composition of society, rather than matching the ideas you think are best for everyone, you cannot see the distinction.

Final comment: I engaged Dhumb on this for the sole reason of pointing out his hypocrisy. We all know he will hate a black conservative just as much as a white conservative.
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Old 01-04-2019, 02:14 PM   #40
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Agreed. Seems like "identity politics," whatever that actually means, seems to mean somebody else voting for their interests. It's basically become some fatuous right wing screed against non-conservatives voting for their interests. Of course, right-wingers voting for their parochial interests is somehow fully right and the natural way of things in their eyes, when, say, the white evangelical voting bloc is the very definition of "identity politics."
We must remember, however, that it's equally toxic for a party to trumpet the physical characteristics of their officials as if they somehow represent anything other than...uhhh...physical characteristics. Only the shallowest and most intellectually impoverished thinkers engage in this kind of racist pandering.

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However, the different "looks," as you put it, are emblematic of a greater range and diversity of thought, better reflecting a fuller range of the American people, than past Congresses. Well, this is true of one party at least. The other? Its constricting into but one aging, shrinking demographic with an accompanying moldering, dated and narrow range of thought.
If a person votes for another person because they both have the same skin tone, no problem. Just admit it, though. Don't try to pretend that a certain skin tone matches up with a certain set of values and viewpoints.
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