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Old 01-04-2019, 02:16 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Cabrio330 View Post
Identity politics is nothing more than voting for someone because of their gender, race or religion, which is the exact context presented by Dhumb. How else to interpret his heralding of the demographic composition of the House?

You give him more credit than he is due by introducing the concept of similar thought or ideas. He did not herald that in his post about the House.

Put simply, people like Dhumb consider identity (race, gender, religion) as traits worthy of voting for, presumably to the exclusion of other traits. If I am wrong, then what was the purpose of his post listing the new members by gender, race, etc.?

I am not saying identity politics is a bad thing, or that people don't vote that way. I am saying it should not be something to consider over ideas. I am not sure why people have a hard time with this. But I guess if you want your politicians to match exactly the race, gender and religious composition of society, rather than matching the ideas you think are best for everyone, you cannot see the distinction.

Final comment: I engaged Dhumb on this for the sole reason of pointing out his hypocrisy. We all know he will hate a black conservative just as much as a white conservative.
I think I just addressed this in my last post (drafted while you were writing this, I guess).
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Old 01-04-2019, 03:07 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by VaderDave View Post
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...tez-70-percent

AOC proposes a top marginal tax rate of 70-ish percent on income over about $10M.

She certainly knows how to grab the limelight. I must admit that I find the analysis in the article interesting and somewhat persuasive.
Even more interesting is the paper cited in the article: https://eml.berkeley.edu//~saez/diam...EP11opttax.pdf

Give it a read. Or a skim.
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Old 01-04-2019, 03:35 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Cabrio330 View Post
Identity politics is nothing more than voting for someone because of their gender, race or religion, which is the exact context presented by Dhumb. How else to interpret his heralding of the demographic composition of the House?

You give him more credit than he is due by introducing the concept of similar thought or ideas. He did not herald that in his post about the House.

Put simply, people like Dhumb consider identity (race, gender, religion) as traits worthy of voting for, presumably to the exclusion of other traits. If I am wrong, then what was the purpose of his post listing the new members by gender, race, etc.?

I am not saying identity politics is a bad thing, or that people don't vote that way. I am saying it should not be something to consider over ideas. I am not sure why people have a hard time with this. But I guess if you want your politicians to match exactly the race, gender and religious composition of society, rather than matching the ideas you think are best for everyone, you cannot see the distinction.

Final comment: I engaged Dhumb on this for the sole reason of pointing out his hypocrisy. We all know he will hate a black conservative just as much as a white conservative.
Well, in trying to assume what I meant, you managed to get it exactly backwards. Nowhere do I say or imply that race, gender, religion are themselves worth voting for, much less to the exclusion of other traits and certainly not over ideas and policies. That is something you interjected completely on your own.

Quite the contrary, my purpose of pointing out the demographic composition of the new Congress is to indicate that a greater range of people of ALL races, genders, and religions are now being included rather than excluded from our body politic as evidenced that the Congress ever more closely reflects the all peoples of our country, not a few narrow sub-sets. The value of this greater inclusion is that more people are now able to bring more ideas to the table for the benefit of our country as a whole. Good ideas are hardly the sole province of white Christian males who still overwhelmingly comprise our political bodies, conspicuously so the GOP.

I am not sure why conservatives have a hard time with this. But I guess if you want politicians of particular races, genders and religious beliefs to be fully able to share their ideas and policies to the benefit of everyone, you cannot see the distinction.

You are quite right though, I will likely dislike the conservative ideas and policies of a black conservative as much as those of a white conservative. No hypocrisy there.

Last edited by Rhumb; 01-04-2019 at 03:40 PM.
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Old 01-04-2019, 03:53 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by VaderDave View Post
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...tez-70-percent

AOC proposes a top marginal tax rate of 70-ish percent on income over about $10M.

She certainly knows how to grab the limelight. I must admit that I find the analysis in the article interesting and somewhat persuasive.
Quite interesting and a testament to the value of bringing a wider range of people and ideas to the table.

Its not like 70+ percent top marginal rates are new or haven't been tried. They were that high throughout during the post-WWII boom, a period of robust economic growth and expanding prosperity for all. A time many/most conservatives seem to look back on with an golden-hued fondness.

I think its a great thing to have such ideas being seriously brought to the table to compete with the Neo-Liberal status quo and orthodoxy that has reigned basically unchallenged for the past 30+ years.
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Old 01-04-2019, 04:01 PM   #45
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Trump has no class! He's not presidential!

https://www.mediaite.com/online/new-...e-motherfcker/
New Congresswoman Rashida Tlaib Goes off on Trump: 'We're Going to Impeach the Motherf*cker!'

She's so passionate!
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Here's the entire compilation of Trump swearing up a fvcking storm.

If you are offended by Rashida Tlaib's colorful language but not Trump's, your problem might not be the language.

https://twitter.com/AynRandPaulRyan/...24549222428672
He's so passionate!

For the record, I don't find it appropriate for any politician to use such language. Tlaib doing so in respect to Trump is only indulging in pig wrestling where she ends up just as dirtied in the end.
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Old 01-04-2019, 04:16 PM   #46
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If a person votes for another person because they both have the same skin tone, no problem. Just admit it, though. Don't try to pretend that a certain skin tone matches up with a certain set of values and viewpoints.
Assuming that a certain skin tone matches up with values and viewpoints is textbook racism (aka democrats).
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Old 01-04-2019, 04:19 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Act of God View Post
Assuming that a certain skin tone matches up with values and viewpoints is textbook racism (aka democrats).
Yup. Maybe you should have quoted the first part of that post instead of the second:

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We must remember, however, that it's equally toxic for a party to trumpet the physical characteristics of their officials as if they somehow represent anything other than...uhhh...physical characteristics. Only the shallowest and most intellectually impoverished thinkers engage in this kind of racist pandering.
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Old 01-04-2019, 04:21 PM   #48
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Yup. Maybe you should have quoted the first part of that post instead of the second:
I'm pointing out that rhumb and his ilk are incredibly bigoted. Saying "all black people think x" is substantively no different than "all black people are criminals".
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Old 01-04-2019, 04:25 PM   #49
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I'm pointing out that rhumb and his ilk are incredibly bigoted. Saying "all black people think x" is substantively no different than "all black people are criminals".
I agree. It's amusing to read blogs like VerySmartBrothas and see what (self-proclaimed, but still) smart black people think about the patronizing tone liberal white people take when talking about race. Hint: they don't seem to like or appreciate it.
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Old 01-04-2019, 04:26 PM   #50
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I'm pointing out that rhumb and his ilk are incredibly bigoted. Saying "all black people think x" is substantively no different than "all black people are criminals".
Strawman alert: I nor anyone I'm aware of on this forum have said any such thing. If anything, your incredibly broad screeds against Muslims, among many others, most closely match this aspersion.
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Old 01-04-2019, 04:36 PM   #51
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He's so passionate!

For the record, I don't find it appropriate for any politician to use such language. Tlaib doing so in respect to Trump is only indulging in pig wrestling where she ends up just as dirtied in the end.
I do find it interesting how she (like AOC) is coming hot, right out of the gate. She's not going with the "I'm just excited to be here and looking forward to working with my colleagues on both sides of the aisle to help the country move forward to a place of rainbows and unicorns!"

Will her approach win her admirers and allies? Will it backfire and undermine her efforts from the get-go? We shall see.
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Old 01-04-2019, 05:45 PM   #52
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I do find it interesting how she (like AOC) is coming hot, right out of the gate. She's not going with the "I'm just excited to be here and looking forward to working with my colleagues on both sides of the aisle to help the country move forward to a place of rainbows and unicorns!"

Will her approach win her admirers and allies? Will it backfire and undermine her efforts from the get-go? We shall see.
Yeah, no shrinking violets there. Maybe a bit of freshman adrenalin at work, though I think there's a bit more behind that.

The Right has really aggressively tried to push the political envelope and center of gravity with provocative, double-down language and tactics since Newt, and especially since Obama. I suspect these women are trying to fight fire with fire rather than resort to the typical liberal 27 point PowerPoint policy analysis (yawn) the push the envelope and center of gravity leftward.

I also think there's an aspect of trying to bait and trigger those on the far right by boldly and unashamedly pushing their agendas. That a Muslim woman of Middle East heritage is aggressively attacking the rights icon, Trump, surely cannot sit well with the (let's just admit it) significant white nationalist component of today's Trumpublican party.

That a young urban Latina is shamelessly pronouncing socialism can hardly sit any better in their craws. The conservative blogosphere continually and clumsily shooting themselves in the foot trying to attack AOC (dancing video being their latest fumble) is certainly evidence of this.

Of course, the danger that these new legislators overshoot the mark is ever present. Also, simply going full Trump and diving into his sty to wrestle him will only leave them muddy and diminished in the end. AOC actually seems quite adroit in this so far. I'm not as familiar with Tlaib.

PS AOCs Tweet and quick vid were impeccable:

"I hear the GOP thinks women dancing are scandalous. Wait till they find out Congresswomen dance too! Have a great weekend everyone"

Shades of the movie Footloose, Taliban anti-dancing, Congresswoman as Latina every woman, lightly dismissive to anti-Tweets ... brilliant. The short vid itself, cute as he'll, simply brushes off the right wing antagonism.

There's the Chinese admonishen to never to underestimate your foe. The Right may need to up their game.

Last edited by Rhumb; 01-05-2019 at 08:31 PM.
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Old 01-04-2019, 08:53 PM   #53
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I agree. It's amusing to read blogs like VerySmartBrothas and see what (self-proclaimed, but still) smart black people think about the patronizing tone liberal white people take when talking about race. Hint: they don't seem to like or appreciate it.
Malcolm X said: "The worst enemy that the Negro have is this white man that runs around here drooling at the mouth professing to love Negros and calling himself a liberal, and it is following these white liberals that has perpetuated problems that Negros have. If the Negro wasn't taken, tricked or deceived by the white liberal, then Negros would get together and solve our own problems. I only cite these things to show you that in America, the history of the white liberal has been nothing but a series of trickery designed to make Negros think that the white liberal was going to solve our problems. Our problems will never be solved by the white man."
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Old 01-05-2019, 03:00 PM   #54
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Old 01-05-2019, 03:03 PM   #55
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Old 01-05-2019, 03:29 PM   #56
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Strawman alert: I nor anyone I'm aware of on this forum have said any such thing. If anything, your incredibly broad screeds against Muslims, among many others, most closely match this aspersion.


as you notice, any time anyone points out AoG’s bigotry he completely ignores it. I’m sure his next comment will be quite predictable as well.
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Old 01-05-2019, 06:10 PM   #57
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Nothing has been pointed out, his downlow racist point of view is evident in all of his posts. It's part and parcel of leftist logic.
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Old 01-05-2019, 07:15 PM   #58
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Nothing has been pointed out, his downlow racist point of view is evident in all of his posts. It's part and parcel of leftist logic.


What about your blatant bigotry, racism and misogyny? Is that part and parcel of the right logic or just you?
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Old 01-05-2019, 08:33 PM   #59
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What about your blatant bigotry, racism and misogyny? Is that part and parcel of the right logic or just you?
I believe in every persons ability to be the best they can, no need to hold their hand.
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Old 01-05-2019, 09:35 PM   #60
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I believe in every persons ability to be the best they can, no need to hold their hand.


For some reason “be the best they can be” in your eyes means being a white Christian male.
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