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Old 07-03-2019, 08:52 PM   #101
ed17331
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Still waiting for the situation to get better.


You donít think itís better that NK is not currently shooting ballistic missiles and threatening to blow up Guam, Hawaii, and the US?

You donít think itís better that diplomacy is ongoing now (instead of threats and saber-rattling with nukes)?

What is your threshold for ďbetterĒ?
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Old 07-05-2019, 11:25 AM   #102
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Still waiting for the situation to get better.
What ed said.

They went from talking about nuking each other to meeting face to face more than once and shaking hands in the DMV. How is that not an improvement?

FWIW, I think NK is stringing everyone along, biding their time until they're in a position of considerably more power. The Kim lineage has done that very successfully with POTUS after POTUS. I don't know if anything short of limited or extensive military action will stop them, and I dread the thought of that. But Trump's bombast, arrogance and lack of tact MAY be exactly what the current Kim either respects, or at the very least doesn't know how to play in his favor. It's patently ridiculous to argue that things haven't at least changed from the course they were on (continuing sanctions + continuous increases in NK's nuclear abilities).
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Old 07-07-2019, 10:42 AM   #103
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War with Iran: Please no

US non-essential personnel ordered out.

Attack on Iran imminent?

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/stat...ry?id=63046559

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Old 07-07-2019, 01:02 PM   #104
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US non-essential personnel ordered out.

Attack on Iran imminent?

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/stat...ry?id=63046559

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Looks like that was a couple months ago. Dunno.
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Old 07-07-2019, 03:22 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by Xcelratr View Post
What ed said.

They went from talking about nuking each other to meeting face to face more than once and shaking hands in the DMV. How is that not an improvement?

FWIW, I think NK is stringing everyone along, biding their time until they're in a position of considerably more power. The Kim lineage has done that very successfully with POTUS after POTUS. I don't know if anything short of limited or extensive military action will stop them, and I dread the thought of that. But Trump's bombast, arrogance and lack of tact MAY be exactly what the current Kim either respects, or at the very least doesn't know how to play in his favor. It's patently ridiculous to argue that things haven't at least changed from the course they were on (continuing sanctions + continuous increases in NK's nuclear abilities).
So other than Kim dragging the US down to his level of blather and bluster, and effectively lowering ourselves to a rhetorical par with NK, what has substantively changed?

Has NK actually renounced or given up anything militarily/nuclear (other than perhaps temporarily forstalling testing, mostly because their latest test was so large as to trash their testing site)?

I don't doubt that NK, forever playing the bombast of a weak schoolyard bulky, was utterly disconcerted that the U.S./Trump actually chose to descend to their level, and are revelling in that victory. But what have we actually gained by that descent?
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Old 07-07-2019, 05:23 PM   #106
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So other than Kim dragging the US down to his level of blather and bluster, and effectively lowering ourselves to a rhetorical par with NK, what has substantively changed?

Has NK actually renounced or given up anything militarily/nuclear (other than perhaps temporarily forstalling testing, mostly because their latest test was so large as to trash their testing site)?

I don't doubt that NK, forever playing the bombast of a weak schoolyard bulky, was utterly disconcerted that the U.S./Trump actually chose to descend to their level, and are revelling in that victory. But what have we actually gained by that descent?
Did you miss the part where I said I think NK is stringing everyone along, biding their time until they're in a position of considerably more power? That makes it pretty clear that I don't think they've given up jack squat with regards to advancing their ability to threaten their neighbors in the Orient, and soon their neighbors across the Pacific.

Did NK actually renounce or give up anything when all the previous POTUSs were speaking to them diplomatically with polish and panache? The answer is "no".

Doing the same thing and expecting different results is the definition of ...
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Old 07-07-2019, 08:48 PM   #107
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Did you miss the part where I said I think NK is stringing everyone along, biding their time until they're in a position of considerably more power? That makes it pretty clear that I don't think they've given up jack squat with regards to advancing their ability to threaten their neighbors in the Orient, and soon their neighbors across the Pacific.

Did NK actually renounce or give up anything when all the previous POTUSs were speaking to them diplomatically with polish and panache? The answer is "no".

Doing the same thing and expecting different results is the definition of ...
So Trump's doing "different" things that result in, at best, no better results?

I can understand a different approach argument to a rather intractable situation. However, that doesn't equate to an open writ justifying anything different simply on the sole account of being "different."

Simply doing something different is not, itself, a policy success. A policy evidencing actual success is a policy success.
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Old 07-08-2019, 12:14 AM   #108
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So Trump's doing "different" things that result in, at best, no better results?

I can understand a different approach argument to a rather intractable situation. However, that doesn't equate to an open writ justifying anything different simply on the sole account of being "different."

Simply doing something different is not, itself, a policy success. A policy evidencing actual success is a policy success.
Face it, 2 years in and Trumpalicious has at least talked to Kim face to face. None of the previous WH occupants have done that. Thatís a different enough result to justify letting the different approach run a bit longer without ing about it.

We may still have to clobber them before they can do so to us. Time will tell.
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Old 07-08-2019, 09:51 AM   #109
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It's a mistake to assume everyone shares our point of view.

If you grew up in a culture that valued overt, over-the-top military displays and considered them demonstrative of real power/strength, you might look at the US and not reach the same conclusion you have now.







Sure, but what do all of these pictures have in common?

A show of military power is not always demonstrated in parades, it can (and is) shown in a variety of ways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xcelratr View Post
What ed said.

They went from talking about nuking each other to meeting face to face more than once and shaking hands in the DMV. How is that not an improvement?

FWIW, I think NK is stringing everyone along, biding their time until they're in a position of considerably more power. The Kim lineage has done that very successfully with POTUS after POTUS. I don't know if anything short of limited or extensive military action will stop them, and I dread the thought of that. But Trump's bombast, arrogance and lack of tact MAY be exactly what the current Kim either respects, or at the very least doesn't know how to play in his favor. It's patently ridiculous to argue that things haven't at least changed from the course they were on (continuing sanctions + continuous increases in NK's nuclear abilities).
Somehow that actually sounds worse than shaking hands in the DMZ.

I agree with your last comment though. Kim isn't stupid. He knows that doing anything of real aggression would get his military bombed into oblivion before he can finish his large plate of food. He's totally playing Trump and everyone before him. As you said, there's not a lot that can be done diplomatically unless NK wants to play ball. Up until now, that really doesn't seem to be the case since they don't GAF about sanctions.
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Old 07-08-2019, 10:53 AM   #110
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Sure, but what do all of these pictures have in common?

A show of military power is not always demonstrated in parades, it can (and is) shown in a variety of ways.
You and I know that. The point is not everyone in Libya, NK, Russia or other places that grew up in those cultures where the govt is constantly militarily demonstrative (roll with it) on a regular basis knows that. Maybe they don't have as much freedom of speech and press, maybe they don't have as much access to the internet, maybe they haven't traveled enough to be exposed to much more than the messaging within their country. They see parades like the ones above, and then someone shows them photos they claim to be "US parades" and they look like this:







Quote:
Originally Posted by SamDoe1 View Post
Somehow that actually sounds worse than shaking hands in the DMZ.

I agree with your last comment though. Kim isn't stupid. He knows that doing anything of real aggression would get his military bombed into oblivion before he can finish his large plate of food. He's totally playing Trump and everyone before him. As you said, there's not a lot that can be done diplomatically unless NK wants to play ball. Up until now, that really doesn't seem to be the case since they don't GAF about sanctions.
I'm not fixing the DMV thing, cuz that's funny.

Military action against NK would be a mess because of China. As I said earlier, I dread the thought of it, but it might be where we're headed with them no matter what.
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Old 07-19-2019, 01:31 PM   #111
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https://www.wsj.com/articles/iran-re...ne-11563526297

Iran Says It Has Seized a British-Flagged Oil Tanker
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Old 07-19-2019, 02:30 PM   #112
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Iran seizing multiple UK-operated oil tankers in the Strait of Hormuz. Not a good move.
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Old 07-19-2019, 02:40 PM   #113
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I guess the UK better do something...
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Old 07-19-2019, 05:28 PM   #114
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UK can't even get their own internal sh!t together.
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Old 07-20-2019, 01:52 PM   #115
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I guess the UK better do something...


Wait til they re-flag the tankers to US flagged vessels.

Then the shooting will start.
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Old 07-21-2019, 12:06 PM   #116
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Panama company has disavowed their tanker that sailed from UAE. They say it violated their rules.

Iran says it was smuggling fuel.

There seems to be more to this than just some tweets.

Side note: FWIW Iím surprised with the professionalism and competency of the Iranians. Theyíre definitely not Al Shabab!


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