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Old 08-11-2019, 08:12 PM   #1881
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Originally Posted by Act of God View Post
Sure
Glad we agree.

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Old 09-23-2019, 08:24 PM   #1882
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Look the other way

https://www.freep.com/story/news/pol...on/2419363001/
Southfield City Clerk charged with 6 election law felonies
altered 193 absentee voter records
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Old 09-24-2019, 03:39 PM   #1883
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Look the other way

https://www.freep.com/story/news/pol...on/2419363001/
Southfield City Clerk charged with 6 election law felonies
altered 193 absentee voter records
A. Not to be didactic, but this was not "voter fraud" by individual voters, per the thread topic, but "election fraud" by an election official, a very distinct issue.
B. This single election clerk's action did NOT alter the outcome of any election. Rather, from what I can glean from the article, this clerk was trying to perhaps cover up her own administrative mistakes than trying to change an election.
C. Nobody is "looking the other way." The clerk has been charged with a number of serious charges and faces a maximum penalty of up to 14 years in prison and $30,000 in fines. This IS being reported on as noted by your very link to a story reporting on it.

Last edited by Rhumb; 09-24-2019 at 03:40 PM.
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Old 09-24-2019, 07:21 PM   #1884
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You forgot to mention this clerk was a Democrat.
Just another “activist”.
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Old 09-24-2019, 07:40 PM   #1885
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You forgot to mention this clerk was a Democrat.
Just another “activist”.
Neither did AOG, because there was no mention of her political affiliation in the article (unless I missed something).

In any case, what's the relevance to the overall discussion? Would her actions been more or less (un)acceptable were she a Republican?

Even the Heritage Foundation, cited in the article, conceded that this sort of fraudulent activity was very rare, citing "there have been 10 Michiganders charged with some sort of election-related crimes since 2007." Less than one per year in a state of 10M (literally a 1 in a million rate).

This hardly seems the damning indictmentment of Democratic perfidy that AOG so blithely presumed.

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Old 10-11-2019, 06:08 PM   #1886
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Some actual voter fraud with real implications and jailed conspirators! Finally a legitimate reason for this thread's existence.

https://www.npr.org/2019/10/10/76889...nce-violations

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The indictment alleges the men "conspired to circumvent the federal laws against foreign influence by engaging in a scheme to funnel foreign money to candidates for federal and state office so that the defendants could buy potential influence with candidates, campaigns, and the candidates' governments."

The indictment lays out two separate conspiracies that Parnas and Fruman allegedly engaged in.

In one, court papers say, they set up a limited liability company, Global Energy Producers, through which they made $340,000 in contributions to two political action committees.

The contributions, the indictment alleges, were made in order to gain influence with politicians and help Parnas and Fruman "advance their own personal financial interests and the political interests of Ukrainian government officials, including at least one Ukrainian government official with whom they were working."

The indictment says Parnas and Fruman met with a member of Congress identified only as "congressman-1" during the 2018 election cycle, for whom they had committed to raise $20,000.

The two met with the congressman and sought his "assistance" in getting the then-U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, Marie Yovanovitch, removed. The indictment says Parnas was working on this effort, at least in part, at the request of more Ukrainian government officials.

Yovanovitch ultimately was removed from her post this spring amid complaints from Giuliani and others. In the controversial July 25 phone call between President Trump and his Ukrainian counterpart, Trump refers to Yovanovitch as "bad news" and said, "She's going to go through some things."
Where are the "Lock him up!" chants? Oh....right. Trump doesn't want his muppets to think or say that.
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Old 10-11-2019, 06:21 PM   #1887
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But wait! There's more!

https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/20...rudy-giuliani/

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All four defendants are accused of conspiring in a scheme to disguise contributions of $10,000 each to two Nevada state office candidates from an unnamed Russian businessman who wanted to obtain licenses for marijuana businesses. Federal law prohibits campaign contributions from foreign nationals.

Parnas and Fruman, but not Kukushkin, are also charged in the indictment with an additional conspiracy to make disguised contributions to an unnamed member of Congress to promote the interests of at least one Ukrainian government official.

In one incident cited in the indictment, the two men allegedly sought the congressman's assistance in advocating for the removal of the U.S. ambassador to Ukraine. The ambassador, Marie Yovanovitch, was recalled by the State Department on May 20.

The House intelligence, foreign affairs and oversight committees on Thursday issued subpoenas to Parnas and Fruman for documents related to their activities in Ukraine, for use in Congress's inquiry into the possible impeachment of President Donald Trump.
But I'm sure this is all a media smear witch hunt lie from a conspiracy effort that spans the globe to smear a known lying, cheating, con man who is just trying to make America great again. What a poor, innocent victim!
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Old 10-11-2019, 07:41 PM   #1888
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Originally Posted by joeski3d View Post
Some actual voter fraud with real implications and jailed conspirators! Finally a legitimate reason for this thread's existence.



https://www.npr.org/2019/10/10/76889...nce-violations







Where are the "Lock him up!" chants? Oh....right. Trump doesn't want his muppets to think or say that.
Well, the distinction there is "voter fraud," the GOP's bogey man vs. "election fraud."

The former is difficult, inefficient, ineffective and easy to discern, which readily explains why it's so rare, despite GOP efforts to display electron microscope images on a political jumbotron.

The latter, election fraud, is where the big leverage is: easier, efficient, very effective, and very easy to obscure, which explains why it's so rampant and endemic, in part because of GOP efforts to train attention towards their "voter fraud" jumbotron.

Just recall AOG's incessant efforts to beat the dry brush trying to suss out even the merest wisps of voter fraud.



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Old 10-12-2019, 01:20 AM   #1889
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Well, that's pretty much the point I was making. There should be very little surprise in seeing the theme of this thread come back to bite the OP's intent square in the ass.
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Old 10-12-2019, 05:16 AM   #1890
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Well, that's pretty much the point I was making. There should be very little surprise in seeing the theme of this thread come back to bite the OP's intent square in the ass.


Isn’t that link about Campaign finance violations? Never saw anybody try to deny that campaign finance violations didn’t exist.

Almost every campaign gets hit with civil violations and fines.i think the record fine is $325,000 paid by the Obama campaign.
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Old 10-12-2019, 09:58 AM   #1891
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Isn’t that link about Campaign finance violations? Never saw anybody try to deny that campaign finance violations didn’t exist.

Almost every campaign gets hit with civil violations and fines.i think the record fine is $325,000 paid by the Obama campaign.
Finance violations are voting violations that undermine the intent of a fair democratic process. The way it was done was by creating fraudulent shell companies. It all amounts to a more effective way of rigging elections than say voting under a false name or voting more than once.

Semantics are not going to make this go away.
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Old 10-12-2019, 10:06 AM   #1892
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"Voter Fraud Doesn't Exist"

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeski3d View Post
Finance violations are voting violations that undermine the intent of a fair democratic process. The way it was done was by creating fraudulent shell companies. It all amounts to a more effective way of rigging elections than say voting under a false name or voting more than once.



Semantics are not going to make this go away.


So you think that setting up your campaign website so that donations cannot be traced and possible foreign money can inadvertently slip in, is voter fraud?

Or just an honest mistake?
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Old 10-12-2019, 10:19 AM   #1893
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Originally Posted by joeski3d View Post
Finance violations are voting violations that undermine the intent of a fair democratic process. The way it was done was by creating fraudulent shell companies. It all amounts to a more effective way of rigging elections than say voting under a false name or voting more than once.



Semantics are not going to make this go away.

I was wrong. It was not $325,000. It was $375,000.

Plus I would a link to a case of voter fraud.

https://www.usnews.com/news/articles...egal-donations
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Old 10-12-2019, 10:25 AM   #1894
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I was wrong. It was not $325,000. It was $375,000.

Plus I would a link to a case of voter fraud.

https://www.usnews.com/news/articles...egal-donations
Better a civil violation than a criminal one!
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Old 10-12-2019, 10:26 AM   #1895
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Joe opened my eyes! I am having an epiphany!

https://www.wsj.com/articles/former-...ns-11557522077

Voter fraud! Who knew? I just thought it was garden variety corruption. But a foreign nation?
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Old 10-12-2019, 10:26 AM   #1896
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Better a civil violation than a criminal one!


Absolutely! But the difference is not in the act, only in what they can prove was the intent.
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Old 10-12-2019, 10:27 AM   #1897
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Absolutely! But the difference is not in the act, only in what they can prove was the intent.
It was already proven, that's why Individual-1's lawyer is now serving prison time, and Individual-1 couldn't be indicted so he's an unindicted co-conspirator!
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Old 10-12-2019, 11:40 AM   #1898
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It was already proven, that's why Individual-1's lawyer is now serving prison time, and Individual-1 couldn't be indicted so he's an unindicted co-conspirator!


His lawyer pled to a criminal violation. That is all that has been established. Of course you will color in the rest with your imagination.
Btw your theory has been debunked by the same people who debunked the Biden Ukraine corruption story.
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Old 10-12-2019, 11:46 AM   #1899
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Originally Posted by ti317 View Post
Joe opened my eyes! I am having an epiphany!

https://www.wsj.com/articles/former-...ns-11557522077

Voter fraud! Who knew? I just thought it was garden variety corruption. But a foreign nation?
So much whataboutism! Well, I guess it's ok for Trump then. Thanks for bringing old news to light, ti! May as well just forget about all of this.
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Old 10-12-2019, 11:53 AM   #1900
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His lawyer pled to a criminal violation. That is all that has been established. Of course you will color in the rest with your imagination.
Btw your theory has been debunked by the same people who debunked the Biden Ukraine corruption story.
Uh, no. The fact is Trump is "Individual-1". Cohen plead guilty but stated that it was at the direction of Trump, that is why he is an unindicted co-conspirator. That isn't a theory, that is fact.
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