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Old 09-24-2019, 03:22 PM   #1
ed17331
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Trump Impeachment

Will Pelosi and the Dems formally move to impeach Trump this afternoon? Or are they just moving one step closer by starting an impeachment inquiry (and yet another committee to investigate Trump)?

Are the Dems overplaying their hand?

Will the backlash against impeachment hurt the Dems in the 2020 elections?

Discuss.

Why canít the Dems wait until tomorrow for this move after they can read the transcript of the Trump call to Ukraine (instead of relying on speculation about the call and hearsay from some anonymous whistleblower who apparently was not even directly privy to the call)?

My take: they have to (try to) strike now because tomorrow the nothingburger nature of their speculations will be revealed. They are desparate to try to impeach him for *something* (even if he hasnít done anything wrong). Pelosi now thinks they have something simple enough to sell to the public. We shall see.
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Old 09-24-2019, 03:50 PM   #2
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I may have missed it as I've been in and out of meetings at work, but which came first? Trumps announcement of full disclosure, or Pelosi's announcement of an impeachment inquiry? If the timing is as such at Trump was first and Pelosi second, I agree....why not wait until the transcript comes out tomorrow? If its reverse, well, thats an answer in and of itself.
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Old 09-24-2019, 03:53 PM   #3
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^ Why?
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Old 09-24-2019, 03:55 PM   #4
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^ Why?
Ed asked:

Quote:
Why canít the Dems wait until tomorrow for this move after they can read the transcript of the Trump call to Ukraine (instead of relying on speculation about the call and hearsay from some anonymous whistleblower who apparently was not even directly privy to the call)?
My comment was in response to that. Timing would be important in answering the question, of which I am unsure of the exact time frame.
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Old 09-24-2019, 04:04 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by ed17331 View Post
Will Pelosi and the Dems formally move to impeach Trump this afternoon? Or are they just moving one step closer by starting an impeachment inquiry (and yet another committee to investigate Trump)?
Possibly, the Ukraine thing may be the straw that breaks the camel's back regarding impeachment. Given that the Ukraine whistle blower now says he'll testify, I suspect they might wait until after that.

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Are the Dems overplaying their hand?
Always a risk, just ask the GOP of 1998. However, a post-election polls found that, in the wake of Clinton-era scandals, the single most significant reason people voted for Bush was for his moral character. Given Trump's gross lack of even a semblance of moral character...

Another question, is the GOP overplaying their hand by obdurately refusing to even consider impeachment or even exercise any but the most perfunctory of pushback/accountability against Trump? Are they willing to go down with the ship?

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Will the backlash against impeachment hurt the Dems in the 2020 elections?
It could ... or could not ... a risk, obviously, but unknown at this point. However, Trump's rock solid 40% base is just that, rock solid. Trouble is, it's like a steep mesa, that support drops off precipitously into an abyss much beyond 41%. Trump has done basically 0 to effectively broaden his base/support.

Discuss.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ed17331 View Post
Why canít the Dems wait until tomorrow for this move after they can read the transcript of the Trump call to Ukraine (instead of relying on speculation about the call and hearsay from some anonymous whistleblower who apparently was not even directly privy to the call)?
I suspect they'll wait until at least after the whistle blower testifies.

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Originally Posted by ed17331 View Post
My take: they have to (try to) strike now because tomorrow the nothingburger nature of their speculations will be revealed. They are desperate to try to impeach him for *something* (even if he hasnít done anything wrong). Pelosi now thinks they have something simple enough to sell to the public. We shall see.
Or rather, they're resigned to having to impeach him for a multitude of transgressions per their Constitutional obligations. Mueller basically said in his oblique manner that Trump wasn't innocent of OoJ, just that he could be charged for it while POTUS (Impeachment, cough, impeachment...). Now this Ukraine thing looks like it might, might, have some real substance to it.

It seems to be the GOP who's desperate to avoid impeachment proceedings (because judges, tax breaks and getting primaried). Basically, they are (A) in a demographic existential crisis, (B) now effectively the Trump Party.
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Old 09-24-2019, 04:04 PM   #6
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Trump Impeachment

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Originally Posted by evolved View Post
I may have missed it as I've been in and out of meetings at work, but which came first? Trumps announcement of full disclosure, or Pelosi's announcement of an impeachment inquiry? If the timing is as such at Trump was first and Pelosi second, I agree....why not wait until the transcript comes out tomorrow? If its reverse, well, thats an answer in and of itself.


Good questions.
I can tell you this: Pelosi was public speaking earlier this afternoon in interview format and teasing impeachment inquiry without announcing it (ďthatís for later todayĒ). While she was doing this - it was already in the news that Trump would release the full unredacted transcript of the Ukraine call.

Then Biden got on TV and called for Trump impeachment (but ran off the stage after prepared remarks and did not take any questions from press).

Now Pelosi is meeting with Dems behind closed doors. She is scheduled to make a formal announcement at 5:00 pm.

Meanwhile Trump made a speech this morning at the UN and also spoke with press this afternoon (ďgo ahead and impeach - they will lose the election - it will only help meĒ).

Busy news day for politics.

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Old 09-24-2019, 04:12 PM   #7
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It was announced that Pelosi would be calling for a formal impeachment inquiry prior to Trump stating he would release the transcript of the phone call. Honestly though, the congress needs to get the whistleblower complaint, not just the transcript.

As for Ed's final statement, Trump has done wrong... the most blatant is the criminal campaign finance violation, which he is already listed as an unindicted co-conspirator... but there are other wrongdoings as well.
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Old 09-24-2019, 04:20 PM   #8
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One of two things is happening here:

1) The Dems finally have something they believe has legs and may lead to at least impeachment in the House.
2) Its a last ditch effort to "get rid of" Trump.

We shall see. I am thinking they wouldn't proceed unless this was something real considering all the other times people have called for impeachment, but then again we are talking about the Dems here.
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Old 09-24-2019, 04:30 PM   #9
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One of two things is happening here:

1) The Dems finally have something they believe has legs and may lead to at least impeachment in the House.
2) Its a last ditch effort to "get rid of" Trump.

We shall see. I am thinking they wouldn't proceed unless this was something real considering all the other times people have called for impeachment, but then again we are talking about the Dems here.


Do you think the Dems already have access to the call transcript via their intel/NSA buddies? If not, how can they have such confidence that there is anything impeachable here?

Keep in mind, they have neither the whistleblower complaint nor the transcript at this point.
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Old 09-24-2019, 04:33 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by ed17331 View Post
Do you think the Dems already have access to the call transcript via their intel/NSA buddies? If not, how can they have such confidence that there is anything impeachable here?

Keep in mind, they have neither the whistleblower complaint nor the transcript at this point.
How would I have answers to these questions????

My thought is Pelosi is not a moron, she has been bombarded with calls for impeachment since the mid terms, if she didnít have/know something real she wouldnít be going down this path.
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Old 09-24-2019, 04:35 PM   #11
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Do you think the Dems already have access to the call transcript via their intel/NSA buddies? If not, how can they have such confidence that there is anything impeachable here?

Keep in mind, they have neither the whistleblower complaint nor the transcript at this point.
The whistleblower complaint is about numerous calls, not just the one. That is why congress needs to see the whistleblower complaint and not just that transcript.
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Old 09-24-2019, 04:38 PM   #12
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The whistleblower complaint is about numerous calls, not just the one. That is why congress needs to see the whistleblower complaint and not just that transcript.


How do you know what the whistleblower complaint is about? None of us know whatís in that complaint yet.
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Old 09-24-2019, 04:39 PM   #13
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How do you know what the whistleblower complaint is about? None of us know whatís in that complaint yet.
That's what was reported by the WSJ. I don't know 100%, but WSJ is typically credible.
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Old 09-24-2019, 05:41 PM   #14
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That's what was reported by the WSJ. I don't know 100%, but WSJ is typically credible.


I expect the contents of the whistleblower complaint will become public before long. Then weíll know if thereís any there there.

But isnít it also reported that the whistleblower had no direct knowledge of the calls (did not hear any of the calls or read any of the transcripts)?
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Old 09-24-2019, 05:42 PM   #15
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I expect the contents of the whistleblower complaint will become public before long. Then weíll know if thereís any there there.

But isnít it also reported that the whistleblower had no direct knowledge of the calls (did not hear any of the calls or read any of the transcripts)?
Inspector General of the Intelligence Community stated the complaint was credible and urgent. He is a Trump appointee.
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Old 09-24-2019, 05:53 PM   #16
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Good luck
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Old 09-24-2019, 06:51 PM   #17
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Chance of Senate convicting Trump is about as high as Andrew Yang becoming the Democrat nominee for POTUS. Regardless, it's the right thing to do.
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Old 09-24-2019, 07:09 PM   #18
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Trump releasing transcript tomorrow, unredacted.

Pelosi asked if the "whistleblower" story turns out to be a nothingburger, will she tame the flames? She immediately says it doesn't matter because there's so much else to impeach on.

There you have it, even the democrats don't believe this hearsay "whistleblower"
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Old 09-24-2019, 07:24 PM   #19
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Well this is interesting, IF true.
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Old 09-24-2019, 07:41 PM   #20
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Trump releasing transcript tomorrow, unredacted.

Pelosi asked if the "whistleblower" story turns out to be a nothingburger, will she tame the flames? She immediately says it doesn't matter because there's so much else to impeach on.

There you have it, even the democrats don't believe this hearsay "whistleblower"


Transcript =/= whistleblower complaint. Learn the difference.
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