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Old 04-07-2017, 03:24 PM   #41
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I guess finding out you were wrong about yellowcake hasn't caused you to rethink your view that our government will always lie just because they want a war?


Like when Johnson said a US warship was attacked by the North Vietnamese.

The desire for war isn't in and of itself a goal for US politicians.

No, they only see war as a means to gain political power much like the Romans did 2000 years ago. As long as Cesar could convince the populace he was waging a Just war then Romans would send their sons to fight and die.

At least Cesar had magic flocks of birds that proved his case for war. Today I don't know what we have.
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Old 04-07-2017, 03:33 PM   #42
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But from Dallas you can so easily judge Obama..........
Links to where I claimed to know, with the certainty you claim to have about Trump, why Obama made foreign policy decisions. Otherwise, quit projecting.
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Old 04-07-2017, 05:48 PM   #43
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Whelp that didn't work
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Old 04-07-2017, 06:41 PM   #44
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Whelp that didn't work
Which, if this one cruise middle attack is the only significant military action, ought not to be surprising. This action seems far more impetuous than strategic on Trump's part.

"Now what?" suddenly looms as the next question. More military action as we inexorably get sucked into yet another ME quagmire? Let Syria and Russia shrug this off and continue on?
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Old 04-07-2017, 10:21 PM   #45
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Which, if this one cruise middle attack is the only significant military action, ought not to be surprising. This action seems far more impetuous than strategic on Trump's part.

"Now what?" suddenly looms as the next question. More military action as we inexorably get sucked into yet another ME quagmire? Let Syria and Russia shrug this off and continue on?
Trump managed to irritate both Bernie Sanders and Rand Paul with this strike.
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Old 04-08-2017, 08:49 AM   #46
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Well seems the strike sent a GREAT message, same area was bombed again and now Russian war ships are in the area of where the strike was staged from.
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Old 04-08-2017, 10:46 AM   #47
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I'm having trouble finding recent photos of Khan Shaykun.

Anyone have a link?

I think a lot can be learned from photos of the bomb damage.

Because, after all, chemical weapons are delivered in gas canisters, right?


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Old 04-08-2017, 10:48 AM   #48
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Well seems the strike sent a GREAT message, same area was bombed again and now Russian war ships are in the area of where the strike was staged from.


Good.

The Assad government has withheld carpet bombing in the name of reducing civilian casualties.

I hope he pulls out all stops and levels the entire town.
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Old 04-08-2017, 03:28 PM   #49
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A relative of mine posted the Declaration of Independence. to FB and I think it has particular relevance in light of what the US has done in Syria:

"He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless ISIS Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions."

I changed Indian to ISIS.

How ironic that a country that was founded fighting against foreign mercenaries and foreign-backed domestic insurrections could engage in the same tactics.


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Old 04-08-2017, 04:09 PM   #50
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Good.

The Assad government has withheld carpet bombing in the name of reducing civilian casualties.

I hope he pulls out all stops and levels the entire town.
Assad, is that you?
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Old 04-08-2017, 05:30 PM   #51
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Assad, is that you?


Yes, yes it is.

Please keep your tax dollars out of my country.
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Old 04-09-2017, 01:16 AM   #52
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susan rice, head liar

http://www.americanthinker.com/artic...l_weapons.html
Susan Rice Lied about Syrian Chemical Weapons


what

you actually read this stuff.
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Old 04-09-2017, 07:01 AM   #53
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It's a good thing Trump warned Putin so Putin could warn Assad. Some stuff could have been damaged or someone remotely important to Assad could have gotten hurt!

Nice show of "force", however. Not necessarily impressive. Tomahawks do look cool when they fly.
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Old 04-09-2017, 08:16 AM   #54
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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7486541.html
Egyptian police arrest five people for using children to stage fake 'Aleppo' footage
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Old 04-09-2017, 01:34 PM   #55
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Analysis of a NYT article

U.S. Strike on Syria Brings Fleeting Hope to Those Caught in Brutal Conflict
By*KARAM SHOUMALI*and*BEN HUBBARD
ISTANBUL — Six years of war in*Syria*have ravaged the life of Ebrahim Abbas, 27.
Mr. Abbas, a computer technician, was detained for protesting against the Syrian government, besieged in his hometown and shot in the stomach (by whom?), and watched his brother die in a shelling attack (again, carried out by whom? Many groups have artillery). He escaped, but his father, a diabetic, died later from a lack of medicine (as a consequence of US/EU sanctions?), and his mother was killed by a sniper.

It was from his refuge in Turkey that Mr. Abbas heard about President Trump’s decision to*launch 59 cruise missiles*at a Syrian air base to punish President*Bashar al-Assad*for*a chemical weapons attack. It felt good (glad to see he isn't distraught over the loss of life of his fellow Syrians).
“Watching a world power taking revenge (!) (ah, yes. That quintessential sentiment expressed by most Arabs) for civilians against the Syrian regime gave me a surge of hope and made me a bit optimistic,” Mr. Abbas said.
But the attack will not bring back all that he has lost nor help him return home soon. In a measure of how entrenched the war is, there were new airstrikes on Saturday on the town targeted in the chemical-weapons attack, with at least one person killed, according to the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights (who happens to be one guy in the UK who claims to know exactly what's going on in Syria thousands of miles away) .
The strike on the air base was the most direct, deliberate military intervention by the United States against Mr. Assad’s forces since the war began (unless of course you remember last year's attack on Syrian Army troops in Deir Ezzor). Mr. Trump said he had launched the strike because he was moved (again, feelings!) by images of women and children choking on poison gas (gas that has yet to be independently verified as to it's composition and origin).
“That was a horrible, horrible thing,” he*told reporters*after the chemical attack. “And I’ve been watching it and seeing it (no, Mr Trump, what you saw was what the jihadists wanted you to see since you don't have any independent investigators on the ground, right?), and it doesn’t get any worse than that.”

But while the strike on Thursday appeared intended to limit the chances of retaliation (actually, if Assad wanted to level Khan Shaykhun with conventional air strikes and artillery there wouldn't be much anyone could do about it), Mr. Trump has offered no proposals to end the war or to assuage the vast human suffering it has generated, sending fleeing Syrians across the globe.

Yasmine Mashaan, a pharmacy technician (wait, a woman educated and working under the Assad Regime? I'm sure that ended as soon as the jihadists took over) from the town of Muhassan in eastern Syria who lost several brothers to the conflict (she lost them? Or were they killed fighting against their government?), said the strike was unlikely to change much for her and her family. And she doubts Mr. Trump’s motivations. “It would be great if he continued this in the direction of saving more civilians (Saving them from what? Saving them only to turn them over to Wahabists from Saudi Arabia to enslave them?) or establishing a safe zone, but after his racist speeches and anti-refugee policy, I think the strike is more for popularity (she might be right about that),” said Ms. Mashaan, who is now in Germany after fleeing there with her family. “But judging by how fast he intervened in Syria and how powerful it was, then we might be going somewhere with it.”

The number affected by the conflict boggles the mind. What began as an (armed) uprising in 2011 escalated into a civil war as protesters (and foreign mercenaries using terrorism) took up arms (and detonated explosives) to respond to the government’s repression (i.e. its response to terrorism) and seek its ouster (so they can control Syria's oil wealth, population and manufacturing).
Over time (Actually, years before the public uprisings began as evidenced by the extensive tunnel networks under the Palestinian refugee camp of Yarmouk), countries like the United States, Turkey and Saudi Arabia backed the rebels, while Russia and Iran helped Mr. Assad (and the Syrian People). As chaos spread, extremist groups gained ground. Al Qaeda infiltrated the rebel movement (to which the jihadist sympathizers were more than happy to embrace), while the jihadists of the Islamic State seized territory that extended into Iraq (since Obama did nothing to aid Iraq when it needed the US most).

Now more than 400,000 people have been killed, a figure roughly equal to the population of Tulsa, Okla., or Oakland, Calif. Many more have been maimed.
Half of Syria’s prewar population of 22 million have fled their homes, a number close to the population of Belgium. Five million of those are registered refugees abroad, according to*the United Nations. Most are in Turkey, Jordan and Lebanon, where 70 percent live on less than $3.84 a day, less than the cost of some lattes at Starbucks.

Jan Egeland, the secretary general of the Norwegian Refugee Council, which does aid work in Syria (although how they do it remains a mystery since there are no Norwegians in Syria), said he could not comment for or against the strike by the United States, but he said that “they do not solve any of my urgent priorities.” (i.e. Trump should have sent missiles full of food and medicine instead of explosives.)

For the humanitarian situation to improve, aid workers would need more border crossings for getting aid into the country (in case Al Nusra is running low on ammo), assurances that air and ground forces would not attack hospitals (so that they can launch home-made rockets and mortars from the roof-tops) and better access to besieged and suffering communities, including nearly 400,000 people within an hour’s drive of Damascus, the capital.

“It is heartbreakingly frustrating to be a humanitarian worker and to have the resources and the supplies but not to be able to reach these people,” Mr. Egeland said.

Within the conflict’s statistics are countless stories of torture (prison is hell), detention (how about you don't conspire to violently overthrow your government?), forced conscription (the draft sucks?), families torn apart and normal lives downgraded rapidly or simply cut short.

Even some Syrians who welcomed the strike (It wasn't their $94 million in tax dollars being spent) questioned why, after all of the war’s brutality, it was the chemical attack this past week that had brought a show of force against Mr. Assad.

“Of course chemicals are weapons of mass destruction,” said a doctor east of Damascus who treated victims of the*first major chemical attack*in Syria, in 2013 (mass destruction? Has he heard about the 200 civilians killed in Mosul with conventional weapons?). He spoke on condition of anonymity because he feared government reprisal. “But what about sieges? What about killing children? Isn’t it wrong for children to grow up without knowing Tom and Jerry? Without knowing chocolate?” (No, sir, actually its wrong for children to grow up not knowing the freedom to pursue Life, Liberty and Happiness.)

President Barack Obama did not respond militarily to a chemical attack in 2013, despite having called the use of such weapons a “red line.” (because, after all, those chemicals were never linked to the Syrian Government) Since then, the doctor has watched the world move on while the siege of his area has tightened, he said through Skype. He said he had learned to live with less electricity, less fuel, less clean water and less food.

“We are living like ancient people, how they depended on themselves, how they used wood to make fires,” he said. “It is a hard life.”

He expected more from the United States (I don't have the heart to tell him that it's the US/EU sanctions that are making his life so hard) and its allies after the 2013 attack, what he called “a position that was appropriate for the free world.” But the result was an agreement, brokered by Russia, for Mr. Assad to give up his chemical weapons.

“The solution to the crime was a deal to take away the weapon but leave the criminal,” the doctor said. (yes, the criminal jihadists that sacrificed their own people to make a political statement.)

The strike by the United States made him mildly optimistic that Mr. Trump would intervene more forcefully than Mr. Obama had.

“Trump is a closed box that has started to open,” he said. “Soon we will see what’s inside.”

While conflict monitors (oh, you mean the one guy in the UK that claims to know exactly what's going on in Syria?) said that Mr. Assad’s forces and their allies had caused the bulk of the war’s deaths with their advanced weapons (because they are completely unbiased and have no interest in the outcome of the war?), communities loyal to Mr. Assad have also paid a heavy price.

Tens of thousands of Syrian soldiers have been killed, and religious minorities, secularists and others who view Mr. Assad as a symbol of a unified Syria have continued to fight out of fear (Fear? I don't think so. Fear makes men RUN from the battlefield. Fear makes people hide in caves. No, what the Syrian people have shown is COURAGE. Courage to stand against the onslaught of Radical Jihadists that want to destroy their way of life!) that they would be eradicated if Islamist rebels take over the country.

Others have had to face both the government and the jihadists.

Ms. Mashaan, the pharmacy technician, said her family’s troubles began when she intervened to stop a security officer from beating her brother for protesting. The officer beat her instead, breaking her arm. (Moral of the story: don't interfere in an arrest or you may be arrested.)

As the uprising spread, Ms. Mashaan, 36, and her five brothers joined in. Soon, her brothers and husband were arrested and tortured, in some cases coming home with their fingernails removed, she said.

Then they began to die.

One was killed when security forces fired into a crowd of protesters, she said. Another was shot in their home by a sniper. Yet another disappeared. She later recognized his face in*a trove of photos*of bodies smuggled out of a prison near Damascus. (They complain about police brutality then complain when the police aren't there to protect them? Which is it?)

As violence spread, Ms. Mashaan’s family fled to a refugee camp in the countryside, but it was soon taken over by a new force in the area: Islamic State jihadists. They killed her younger brother (maybe they killed her other brothers too?) and took advantage of her medical training by forcing her to work in a clinic, she said.

The family later fled to a refugee camp across the border in Turkey, where they lived until Ms. Mashaan’s husband and her last remaining brother joined the migration to Europe and paid smugglers to take them to Greece in rubber dinghies. They made their way to Germany, where she and her five children joined them last year.

Living in Germany is hard, she said in a Facebook chat from her new home. Not speaking the language made it difficult to register the children, and many Germans refused to rent lodgings to her family because they were refugees, she said.
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Old 04-09-2017, 05:30 PM   #56
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MY question is this, has Assad come out and denied that he used chemical weapons?


Second question, why is using chemical weapons worse than shooting people. They're dead either way .
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Old 04-09-2017, 05:32 PM   #57
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MY question is this, has Assad come out and denied that he used chemical weapons?


Second question, why is using chemical weapons worse than shooting people. They're dead either way .


Yes he has denied it.

See this article: https://consortiumnews.com/2017/04/0...he-dog-moment/
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Old 04-09-2017, 05:47 PM   #58
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Yes he has denied it.

See this article: https://consortiumnews.com/2017/04/0...he-dog-moment/
Now that changes things, to me
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Old 04-09-2017, 06:48 PM   #59
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Cooler heads have prevailed, it seems:

Syrian people should decide Assad’s fate, Tillerson tells US media https://www.rt.com/usa/384142-tiller...e-change-isis/


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Old 04-09-2017, 06:51 PM   #60
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Second question, why is using chemical weapons worse than shooting people. They're dead either way .
If you had ever sat through chem warfare defense training in the military your question would be un-necessary,, You kinda need to read and see it to get why we don't want it being used in combat, lets just say you die screaming from most of them and the antidotes are not much better. Plus you cant aim chem weapons at all, no way to limit collateral damage.

<shrug>

I don't believe we change much being there.. The middle east has been a wreck for 2000 years and until they separate their internal vs external politics.. It wont change.. We have stuff at home I'd rather see the money go to..
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