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Old 01-01-2019, 06:48 PM   #1
VaderDave
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The OFFICIAL 2020 Presidential Election Thread

Because it's never too soon, apparently.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/31/u...gtype=Homepage

https://www.vox.com/2018/12/31/18162...tory-committee
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Old 01-01-2019, 09:41 PM   #2
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Looks like Trump is a dead man walking. Kasich may be running.

No President who has been primaried has ever been re-elected
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Old 01-01-2019, 10:38 PM   #3
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Looks like Trump is a dead man walking. Kasich may be running.

No President who has been primaried has ever been re-elected
When was the last time that happened?

EDIT: found it myself. Interesting stuff:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/when-pr...ry-challenges/

Last edited by VaderDave; 01-01-2019 at 10:48 PM.
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Old 01-02-2019, 09:29 AM   #4
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Oi... Booker will be useful more useful to the republicans for anti-democratic sound bytes and memes.
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Old 01-02-2019, 02:50 PM   #5
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Oi... Booker will be useful more useful to the republicans for anti-Democratic sound bytes and memes.

Fixed
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Old 01-02-2019, 04:20 PM   #6
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It will be interesting to see the different platforms of the candidates. Which ones are going to be more centrist and which ones are going to be what the Democratic voters actually want.
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Old 01-03-2019, 12:41 PM   #7
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Old 01-03-2019, 12:50 PM   #8
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If you want to make a statement that we all ought to get on board to fight poverty, I'm with you. If you want to say that we ought to fight income inequality I'm not with you at all. Because I don't think that the rich guy stole from the poor guy. In fact rich people don't get rich by stealing from poor people because it turns out poor people don't have money.
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Old 01-03-2019, 01:11 PM   #9
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Old 01-03-2019, 04:11 PM   #10
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Warren roasts Joe Lieberman:

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/...tter-diss.html

She has a pretty good point, IMHO.
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Old 01-03-2019, 06:16 PM   #11
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Yup, pretty much the puerile tweet I'd expect from man-child Trump - and of his closeted adherents in promoting it.

Good on Warren for ignoring it, as any adult should ignore a petulant child grabbing for attention.
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Old 01-03-2019, 06:21 PM   #12
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Yup, pretty much the puerile tweet I'd expect from man-child Trump - and of his closeted adherents in promoting it.

Good on Warren for ignoring it, as any adult should ignore a petulant child grabbing for attention.
Her track record of ignoring Trump's trolling is not very impressive, though.
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Old 01-03-2019, 06:50 PM   #13
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Warren roasts Joe Lieberman:

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/...tter-diss.html

She has a pretty good point, IMHO.
Hopefully Lieberman will be unable to recover from that.
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Old 01-03-2019, 06:57 PM   #14
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Hopefully Lieberman will be unable to recover from that.
His election prospects just plummeted.

But I dig Warren's proposal of a lifetime ban on politicians circling around to become lobbyists.
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Old 01-03-2019, 07:27 PM   #15
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His election prospects just plummeted.

But I dig Warren's proposal of a lifetime ban on politicians circling around to become lobbyists.
I think she's unelectable as president, but I do like her calling out the swamp monsters.
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Old 01-03-2019, 07:28 PM   #16
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Lieberman is a scumbag, always was.
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Old 01-04-2019, 02:08 AM   #17
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I think she's unelectable as president, but I do like her calling out the swamp monsters.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/03/o...gtype=Homepage

I think this is a fascinating analysis of Warren's economic/business regulatory proposals. Although I have historically been a proponent of freer markets with fewer regulations, I must admit that I find the following notion appealing:

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The pre-distribution agenda, while rooted in the minutiae of government regulation, actually has a simple core message. It is not about rigging the system to benefit the poor and the middle class, but about unrigging it from benefiting the wealthy and the powerful. It is about shaping markets to allocate returns from economic activity more fairly in the first place rather than trying to correct inequities after the fact.
I think there is value in recognizing that perhaps a shift in regulation might lead to more broadly based prosperity. I particularly like the idea of regulation occurring on the front end instead of implementing back-end solutions, like wealth redistribution through higher taxes on the rich coupled with what essentially amount to welfare programs for lower-income folks.

Anyway: I'm still percolating on this. I'm interested to hear other viewpoints.
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Old 01-04-2019, 08:25 AM   #18
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https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/03/o...gtype=Homepage

I think this is a fascinating analysis of Warren's economic/business regulatory proposals. Although I have historically been a proponent of freer markets with fewer regulations, I must admit that I find the following notion appealing:



I think there is value in recognizing that perhaps a shift in regulation might lead to more broadly based prosperity. I particularly like the idea of regulation occurring on the front end instead of implementing back-end solutions, like wealth redistribution through higher taxes on the rich coupled with what essentially amount to welfare programs for lower-income folks.

Anyway: I'm still percolating on this. I'm interested to hear other viewpoints.
I certainly agree there is a lot about our system that is rigged to help the wealthy and powerful. The challenge is implementing solutions that are effective while also (a) being consistent with our country's sense of fairness to all and (b) not creating a different set of wealthy and powerful.

Nothing effective can be implemented until more voters, particularly on the left, recognize that all federal politicians and bureaucrats are inherently part of the powerful and in most cases, certainly with the politicians and more and more with bureaucrats, are also part of the wealthy. Mr. Fox, here is your hen house.

In any event, I say start with a flat tax and then, as our economic activity adjusts in response, apply corrective measures elsewhere; i.e., take an incremental approach. A couple of guiding principles should be that (1) making our system more fair is not inconsistent with reducing federal government control, and (2) making our system more fair is inconsistent with achieving equal results. Alas, I fear that one political party that is driven by identity politics and jealousy will never come around to accept these principles.
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Old 01-04-2019, 08:48 AM   #19
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Nothing effective can be implemented until more voters, particularly on the left, recognize that all federal politicians and bureaucrats are inherently part of the powerful and in most cases, certainly with the politicians and more and more with bureaucrats, are also part of the wealthy. Mr. Fox, here is your hen house.
You just couldn't resist throwing a jab at the left. You were starting to sound rational until that moment.

I don't know anybody on the left or right that don't see that point. But at least there are politicians on the left that are making an effort to cite this as a problem and make it their platform project instead of just a soundbite to get elected that gets indefinitely back seated until the next campaigning effort.

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Alas, I fear that one political party that is driven by identity politics and jealousy will never come around to accept these principles.
Again with the hypocrisy. You just can't make a point without spoiling it by pretending you're political identity makes you superior. Take your bias out of your posts and you will be conversational instead of confrontational.

Aside from that, many have argued that, while flat tax sounds good, it's still a flawed tax system that affects households disproportionately.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyph.../#75133e0d5561

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People don't like a flat tax because a true flat tax impacts taxpayers disproportionately even though the tax is proportionate. For example, let's assume a tax rate of 10%. For a household making $1,000,000, that 10% would represent $100,000 in tax. For a household making $10,000, that 10% would represent $1,000 in tax. The baseline cost of living does not change as income changes: with respect to a gallon of milk or gas, for example, the cost of that milk or gas doesn't cost less for the poor than for the wealthy. If basic expenses like food and fuel are relatively inelastic, while a flat tax may be proportionate, the effect of the tax may be disproportionate. If you mix in other circumstances (caring for a disabled child or several minor children), the effect is even more dramatic. To resolve those issues, most flat tax plans typically include an exemption for low income taxpayers, the elderly and the disabled. Many flat tax plans, such as Sen. Paul's, also include tax deductions and tax exemptions, which, of course, moves the tax away from being flat and more towards being progressive. As that happens, you also move away from the likelihood IRS could be eliminated. Additionally, imposing a tax only on wages means that those who work for a living and receive a traditional wage (typically, the middle class) would pay a higher rate on gross income than those who receive most of their income through dividends and capital gains (like Warren Buffett) or distributions from partnerships and S corporations (think former Senator John Edwards) which, it's argued, produces an inequitable and unfair result.
https://budgeting.thenest.com/proble...tax-24710.html
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Tax deductions and credits for certain expenses and investments help to stimulate the economy and promote socially beneficial activity such as charity and installation of energy-saving appliances. These provisions of the American progressive tax code also help people who are saddled with expenses for medical care and other difficult situations. Charitable giving would be seriously affected if there were no tax exemption for it. There would be less of an incentive to invest in businesses that create necessary jobs and products without deductions for such investment. Most of all, having a family would become more of a financial burden under a flat tax system.
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Old 01-04-2019, 09:05 AM   #20
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Lieberman is a scumbag, always was.


And yet had you been old enough to vote in 2000, would you have voted the Gore Lieberman ticket?
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