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Old 03-30-2016, 10:48 PM   #41
Constant
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Well I have good and bad news to share.

The bad news - the new 20x12x5.5mm seal has suffered a catastrophic failure after 1 week. The seal split apart, dumping all the Pentosin (I assume made of liquid gold based on the price) on the ground. I'm guessing the seal's 10mm inner diameter was the problem; had it actually measured true to 12mm, it may have worked. As such, it was under too much tension and must have just split.

I went back to the regular o-ring provided by the local hydraulic place.

The good news - the clutch slip between gears is finally gone! What was done? After changing the seal for the 272637 time, I was pissed. So I drove the car like a teenager with a fresh license, umm-- to make sure the seal wouldn't pop, yeah, that's it.... Well afterward, I had the thought that maybe I should run adaptation while the clutch was nice and hot. And guess what? It works! Holy $hit, I might even call the SSG shifts *decent* now! In Sport mode, it shifts pretty darn nice! I'm totally shocked. Lesson learned, run adaptation with a warm clutch.
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Old 03-31-2016, 06:19 AM   #42
turnerg1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Constant View Post
Well I have good and bad news to share.

The bad news - the new 20x12x5.5mm seal has suffered a catastrophic failure after 1 week. The seal split apart, dumping all the Pentosin (I assume made of liquid gold based on the price) on the ground. I'm guessing the seal's 10mm inner diameter was the problem; had it actually measured true to 12mm, it may have worked. As such, it was under too much tension and must have just split.

I went back to the regular o-ring provided by the local hydraulic place.

The good news - the clutch slip between gears is finally gone! What was done? After changing the seal for the 272637 time, I was pissed. So I drove the car like a teenager with a fresh license, umm-- to make sure the seal wouldn't pop, yeah, that's it.... Well afterward, I had the thought that maybe I should run adaptation while the clutch was nice and hot. And guess what? It works! Holy $hit, I might even call the SSG shifts *decent* now! In Sport mode, it shifts pretty darn nice! I'm totally shocked. Lesson learned, run adaptation with a warm clutch.
Well the news is not good but the timing is great. I was to have the mechanic that has my car installing this today.
Now I guess not. although he is getting very frustrated with me at what to do with the car. Since I don't have the time, tools, space to do this work.
Im wondering why though the seal is 10mm vs the 12 it calls on the package and order.
Did you measure the extra one you had? Same dimension?
I wonder if a call to the vendor to ask them about it?
Regardless I may be needing to just bite the bullet and order a new cylinder since ive got to have my car back.

Thanks,

Greg
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Old 04-11-2016, 08:44 AM   #43
BK69HH
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Hey guys,

well done, i faced the same issue like you did after my last comment from last year but went firstl ywith the repair Kit from the other cylinder!

Until now I faced no issues with it!

But I still had in mind to make it up to a proper solution -> equal or better than the f*****g original.

In the mean time I tried to get some seals out of HNBR/FKM but they are hard to get so I ordered myself some C-/U-Cups seals in PU, to check the compability.

acc. to the hydraulic-oil manufacturer Pentonsin which I contacted, I spoke personally with the HO the laboratory, there are different characteristics and circumstances were attention should be paid to.:

1. -> Composition of the individual chemical ingredients (like carbon etc.) so -> HNBR must not be equal to HNBR, NBR, PU(R) FKM and so on..depending on used Material from seal manufacturer

2. -> Enviromental conditions were seal is used -> temperatures/velocity/Installation conditions/ surface finishing of the environment and so on….

The HO told me that the 1st choice from their side would be HNBR, 2nd NBR, 3rd FKM…..and so on..

So which seal out of which material to choose?

Using one of the given references will have an impact on the lifetime of the seal in the system.

BUT

acc. to my opinion the ranking is not significant enough about the lasting of the seal in the system.

As I requested to him:

longterm material tests even under static conditions are…. unavailable… and acc. to his statement further material tests with newer materials developed are not available neither foreseen and will not be performed…… from their side the given references are sufficient….. so the material test performed might be done a long time ago static/dynamic completely unknown… why should they care about testing new materials when they have different choices available…may be only based on the chemical compatibility...

so then...

I contacted as well some seal-manufacturers in Germany,
the answers were quite dry….

Most of the time the answer is something like: stability against hydraulic fluid is given!

Then I had one seal-manufacturer on the phone who could tell me more about their seal ingredients etc… he had a look on my drawing (as I re-designed the actuator in catia V5).

He told me that in my case, on the given inner/outer diameter, with-out a special tooling, the installation of an HNBR seal would be quite difficult as the material would be to hard to get the seal on the piston with-out may be destroying the sealing surfaces…

He proposed me another EPDM/PU seal for testing as wearing in static and dynamic conditions a surely different to estimate wearing…..

In any case I can accept if may be the seal will not last for over 10years or a 100.000km as the original one even not did it….

So testing under real conditions will be needed….. I ordered a PU seal getting it installed hopefully this week/end.

BR
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Old 04-11-2016, 02:24 PM   #44
Constant
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I just received the same seal from Hercules in NBR, except I ordered it in 20x14x5.5. And guess what? It measures 20x12x5.5.

I'll give this one a try again this week when I have time.

Let us know your findings with the PU seal.

Last edited by Constant; 04-11-2016 at 05:30 PM.
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Old 04-12-2016, 09:08 AM   #45
BK69HH
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Gents,

I got some more news: today I contacted some manufactuer
within Europe to get some more different seals....

So I got some offer from different manufacturers:

for HNBR and FKM seals..

Prices are all between 28 and 30 € .......and I am wondering why the prices
are so high... in comparation to the one you have choosen from Hercules....and the 2xPU which I have bought for 2€; via eBay....

I have to review the prices with the manufacturer for sure try to figure out from where the Price differences are coming from...

But are u sure the NBR one you bought should be used in our Hydraulic operated Slave Cylinder.... see my screenshot there is written that it is for pneumatic operated cylinders....with low pressure.....

May be thats the reason why the last one got blown off?

Yesterday I put the PU seal into the HF to see how the material is reacting on it.

BR
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Old 04-14-2016, 04:36 PM   #46
Constant
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I installed the 14x20x5.5mm seal last night. The inner diameter measured 12mm, not 14mm as advertised. Even still, 12mm is slightly too large for the inner groove and it doesn't hug the piston snugly, so it can slide around.
http://herculesus.com/product.php?productid=1097438

Again, I ran the clutch bleed procedure without the gaiter installed. Even though it is loose on the inner groove, no leaks. I'll see how long it lasts.

Personally I think the "perfect" seal would be a piston u-seal in 11x20.5x6mm. Unfortunately I can't find one off the shelf in that size.
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Old 04-29-2016, 11:30 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Constant View Post
I installed the 14x20x5.5mm seal last night. The inner diameter measured 12mm, not 14mm as advertised. Even still, 12mm is slightly too large for the inner groove and it doesn't hug the piston snugly, so it can slide around.
http://herculesus.com/product.php?productid=1097438
Two weeks later, this seal is still working fine. @BK69HH, did you ever install the polyurethane seals?
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Old 04-29-2016, 11:33 AM   #48
turnerg1
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Constant. I couldn't wait any longer so I attempted to purchase a used cylinder from a recycling center out in California. When I first ordered they had one in stock but the guy who took my order was fired right after so my order never got fulfilled and the part was sold out from underneath me.
Long story short I had to buy a new one which is being delivered today.
This thread will still go a long way to help those in the future who only need the oring.

Greg
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Old 05-23-2016, 09:34 AM   #49
turnerg1
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Im back to needing the forum expertise here.
I had the mechanic replace the cylinder as I noted above, however when they were trying to relearn the smg system it wouldn't "shift" to gears higher than 1 or 2 and reverse.
At first I thought they were telling me the pump was bad but after a conversation with the shop owner today I realize he was telling me the pump was working fine, in fact all the hydraulic system was working fine, they could hear all the shifting taking place etc, but what was not happening was the gear number on the dash did not reflect the true gear of the transmission.

Is this the Gear Position Sensor failing or failed-which I would hope more that a pump-its like 100 bucks cheaper. Or maybe the control module or EPU or whatever you want to call it?
The only fault being pulled is I think he said was a dashboard error signal. Not sure if the GPS gives a code.

Thanks,

Greg
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Old 05-23-2016, 04:40 PM   #50
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In INPA, I was getting the "intermittent gear position sensor code implausible" 4EF4. The two sensors are PN 23427507168, PN 23427507169.

Sounds like one of the gear position sensors is bad. There are 2, one senses the side-to-side lever position (R-N-D), one senses the up-down gear changes (1->6). Unfortunately I can't recall which sensor PN is which. On one of mine, the small "lever" arm was actually broken off.

You can see it here:


I've had both of mine replaced. You have to drop the transmission to access them as they are on the very top of the rear tail housing. They do have to be physically aligned properly when they are replaced; the sensor's lever rides on a notched shaft inside the housing. If not aligned properly, the lever could be bent or broken again.
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Old 06-21-2016, 06:50 AM   #51
turnerg1
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so with sad news Im having to say Im going to give up trying to fix whatever is wrong with my car. the mechanic says the dash cluster is messed up preventing the gears from being noted in the dash and updating the computer.
Everything else is working properly. So I will be parting out my car when I get it towed back to my house. This includes the brand new clutch actuator with sensor I just bought and put in.
I probably wont be dropping the transmission but I could to salvage any parts anyone may need.
Let me know if anyone here is interested in the actuator, Ill be selling it at a slightly lower price than new plus shipping as its been installed, tested, never driven.

Greg
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Old 06-27-2016, 10:56 PM   #52
325iSMGpower
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Originally Posted by Constant View Post
Two weeks later, this seal is still working fine. @BK69HH, did you ever install the polyurethane seals?
Constant do you have any updates because your clutch zylinder?
I bought the same seal an not sure if i should install it now.

New clutch, dmf, pentonsin CHF11S, seal and cylinder repair kit are in my garage.
Is it still working?
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Old 06-28-2016, 06:28 AM   #53
turnerg1
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Originally Posted by 325iSMGpower View Post
Constant do you have any updates because your clutch zylinder?
I bought the same seal an not sure if i should install it now.

New clutch, dmf, pentonsin CHF11S, seal and cylinder repair kit are in my garage.
Is it still working?
325iSMGpower. as I noted above in my threads Ive had the same issue. No seal made my cylinder work properly.
I bought a new one from ECS which was installed on the car and tested satisfactory but no other issues with other systems prevent my car from being in working order so Im parting out.
I am selling my new clutch cylinder. Since its brand new Id like to get 1000 shipped but please make a reasonable offer. I notice you have upgraded your drive train so having a new cylinder makes sense.
Im also selling my smg pump for a reasonable price.
Bought in 2013 and has about 20K miles on it.

Greg
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Old 06-28-2016, 04:37 PM   #54
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It's been a little over 2 months, and still working fine. No issues here.
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Old 07-17-2016, 06:47 PM   #55
JoaoPlacido
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Hi all,

I have a 330 ssg with the same problems, and after read this topic I have a couple of doubts.

-how do you do the system bleed ? Can anyone explain step-by-step?
- what is the "adaptation"??


Dear Constant, the seal still works fine? The Honda seal that fail, you consider to take the piston to a lathe and reduce the shaft to 10mm or at least 11?

Regards
Joao
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Old 07-17-2016, 09:01 PM   #56
turnerg1
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ive got a brand new one I can sell you.
Bought directly from ECS tuning and has the sensor.

Greg

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoaoPlacido View Post
Hi all,

I have a 330 ssg with the same problems, and after read this topic I have a couple of doubts.

-how do you do the system bleed ? Can anyone explain step-by-step?
- what is the "adaptation"??


Dear Constant, the seal still works fine? The Honda seal that fail, you consider to take the piston to a lathe and reduce the shaft to 10mm or at least 11?

Regards
Joao
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Old 07-18-2016, 07:18 AM   #57
Constant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoaoPlacido View Post
-how do you do the system bleed ? Can anyone explain step-by-step?
- what is the "adaptation"??
System bleeding is done via a computer hooked up to the diagnostic port, whether it's the dealership or at home using GT1/Modic/INPA/etc. I used INPA.
Adaptation is also done the same way, just a different selection in the computer program.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoaoPlacido View Post
Dear Constant, the seal still works fine? The Honda seal that fail, you consider to take the piston to a lathe and reduce the shaft to 10mm or at least 11?
Seal is still working fine. I did not consider using a lathe on the piston, but it's a good idea if you have a lathe available to you.
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Old 07-19-2016, 12:35 PM   #58
JoaoPlacido
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Hi all,

Tunerg1 thanks for the offer, but I'm in UK and I will try sort it out the cheapest way possible, I mean with a rubber seal.

Thank you Constant for the help, probably I will need more next weekend when I start doing the repair.

I will use a PU seal for the job because in industrial machinery is what we use, but already order a EPDM seal, that is probably the best material for the job.
I order complete BMW software and cable for the task and a laptop with windows xp is also ready to attack.
Since I'm doing this, I will change all the oils and filters in the car.

Another thing, today I received the cfh11s oil that I order, and the oil is really thin, almost like brake fluid and the color is a very light green, almost transparent. The brand of the oil is Febi-bilstein. The pentosin oil is same like this that I described???


Regards
Joao

Last edited by JoaoPlacido; 07-19-2016 at 12:50 PM.
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Old 07-19-2016, 12:36 PM   #59
turnerg1
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sent you PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoaoPlacido View Post
Hi all,

Tunerg1 thanks for the offer, but I'm in UK and I will try sort it out the cheapest way possible, I mean with a rubber seal.

Thank you Content for the help, probably I will need more next weekend when I start doing the repair.


Regards
Joao
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Old 07-21-2016, 07:23 AM   #60
jd improved
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Im running this seal for about 1000km now with no problems:

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Nutring-12-x-...item2359b1f88d

A little tricky to install....
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