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Are you a gun fanatic as well? If so, you'll want to talk to other owners about what you own in this forum.

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Old 08-06-2012, 11:27 AM   #1
boostedisbetter
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Just took the CWP course... What a joke...

I went to our local gun show this past weekend and took the CWP course so I can get my CWP in a couple months

This class was completely unorganized. There must have been 100 people in the class and it was conducted on the second floor of where the gun show was being held. NOT in a closed class, NOT away from all the noise of the show. I couldn't hear ANYTHING the instructor was saying, he was using a 8" speaker that was not nearly loud enough for people in the back to hear.

The test at the end was rediculous(true and false), basically questions like:

-You must be responsible when concealing a firearm
-Shooting warning shots is a good idea when in a confrontational situation
-You can carry a firearm to a school

After we sat around and tried to listen to the instructor for 2 hours, and then take the "test", we went to a local range and shot one bullet out of a .38 spcl. That's it.

I basically feel like I paid $58 for a piece of paper and a single bullet. Good think I have all the statutes on paper I can read through, and know most all of the stuff he was probably talking about, but for some of the people that were there I kind of fear for... Being 26, I'm sure if I was having issues hearing the instructor, the 50+ people were not able to hear at all.

I feel this is a huge shake down so they can just make money...They don't care if you know what you are doing, as long as you haven't had a felony and you pay up, you can get your CWP... Kinda scary...

I still have to wait untill the 19th of Sep to send in my app for CWP(and pay another $112), and then it takes 3 more weeks just to get my actual license.

Anyway, went to the range yesterday and shot 5 9mm and 2 .45 to try and get a feel for the handgun I want.

I am planning on getting two. One for CC and one for HD.

I tried: G19, G27, XD9, CZ, FN9, and a M&P. Also tried the XDM and FNH.

G19: Perfect size, but I think the .40 cal G22 would be a better choice
G27: Too small, I have big hands, even the extended mag didn't help
XD9: LOVE IT, just think I'd go to the XDM.
CZ: Slide is way too small and makes racking the slide annoying
FN: LOVE the fact that after the first shot it goes to single action, but its just a big gun
M&P: Liked it, but just not as much as the XD

For CC I really liked the G19, but I'd go G22. The XD seems too big to CC idk...

For HD I think I'm getting the SA XDM, just all around awesomeness!

Anyway, I'll be buying one this week if you guys want to suggest something I missed, I'm going to go shoot again before I decide.

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Old 08-06-2012, 11:39 AM   #2
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Glock 19 is a better gun than the 23 IMO.

9mm is just as effective as .40 nowadays. (Hornady Critical Duty for example.)

In addition, the G23 was adapted from the G19. The G19 was adapted from the 9mm G17.

I have a 15 year old G19 that has worked flawlessly after thousands and thousands of rounds.

To each their own, but .40 is NOT better than 9mm (especially for follow up shots, capacity, etc.)

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Old 08-06-2012, 11:45 AM   #3
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You really want to consider the ammo prices and the effectiveness of the calibers. 9mm and .40 aren't too different. The .40 has a slight edge in SOME cases but does it warrant the ~20% price increase per box you're going to pay for the ammo?

Also, you say you shot 5 9mm's and 2 .45's yet you're choice is a .40? .40 is an entirely different caliber then either of those two. It is not "in between" like most people think. It's a far snappier and annoying to control for follow-up shots. Try shooting a .40 and 9mm back to back and see how it feels.

Take note that I am bias, but I've shot a great deal of all three calibers being mentioned here and I can say with certainty .40 would be my LAST choice of any of them. Even for the range.

9mm and .45 are very enjoyable and have adequate stopping power with the ability to more easily control the recoil. All the guns you've listed are top notch shooters and reliable overall. The Glock 19 and M&PC are my personal favorites for a combo carry/range gun. I've witnessed some issues with Springfield that have turned me off to them but realize they have an excellent reputation. The FN would make an excellent range/home defense gun, that's my personal favorite.

Overall, I hope you choose 9mm as you'll have more enjoyment in your wallet and in your hand shooting it then any of the other calibers.

Good Luck!


EDIT: Glockman beats me to it lol
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Old 08-06-2012, 11:53 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by GlockMan View Post
Glock 19 is a better gun than the 23 IMO.

9mm is just as effective as .40 nowadays.

In addition, the G23 was adapted from the G19. The G19 was adapted from the 9mm G17.

I have a 15 year old G19 that has worked flawlessly after thousands and thousands of rounds.

To each their own, but .40 is NOT better than 9mm (especially for follow up shots, capacity, etc.)
Good info man, I didn't know that. So you're saying stepping up to a .40 really isn't a step up from 9mm? But going to .45 is a big difference right?

Well ya, if that's the case, there is no point in moving up to a G23 from a G19 right?

Do you use the G19 as a CCW?
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Old 08-06-2012, 11:58 AM   #5
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Shoot some .40 S&Ws before making your decision. I use a G23 for one of my CCW options, but wouldn't mind a straight trade on a G19. 9mm recoil and follow up shots are a lot easier to deal with. .40S&W is fine once you get used it it, but it is definitely a lot more snappy that 9mm or .45.
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Old 08-06-2012, 11:59 AM   #6
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Good defensive rounds will all be very similar in 9,40,45. I would get whatever you shoot the best and are most comfortable with. Shot placement will be much more important then the difference between 9mm 40 or 45 ballistic differences IMO

G19 is a great gun and would easily serve dual purpose as hd and carry
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Old 08-06-2012, 12:00 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by speedcrazy1532 View Post
9mm and .45 are very enjoyable and have adequate stopping power with the ability to more easily control the recoil. All the guns you've listed are top notch shooters and reliable overall. The Glock 19 and M&PC are my personal favorites for a combo carry/range gun. I've witnessed some issues with Springfield that have turned me off to them but realize they have an excellent reputation. The FN would make an excellent range/home defense gun, that's my personal favorite.

Overall, I hope you choose 9mm as you'll have more enjoyment in your wallet and in your hand shooting it then any of the other calibers.

Good Luck!
Awesome info as well man, I've been brainwashed by the .40 it seems huh?

That's two guys saying G19, looks like we might have a winner for CC. That was the first gun I shot and it was a Gen4 (I love the new grips btw, but still like the Gen3 too, and it's price) I have thought a lot about the price of ammo as I do visit the range quite often, but I also have been looking at .22 pistols for that.

Where do you guys CC the G19? As in what part of body, not places.
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Old 08-06-2012, 12:03 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by SLVR JDM View Post
I use a G23 for one of my CCW options, but wouldn't mind a straight trade on a G19.
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
G19 is a great gun and would easily serve dual purpose as hd and carry
Thanks guys, two more for the G19, plus the XD9 is more expensive, and I like the finger grooves that Glock has, unlike the XDs.


.40 is now out of the rankings
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Old 08-06-2012, 12:12 PM   #9
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Make sure when deciding between Glock and SA that you end up with the one that you shoot better and is more comfortable in your hand. They are close enough in price that it is negligible. Personally, I want to like the SA XDM more, but it just doesn't feel right in my hand. I love the XDM and shoot it pretty well, but when I compare it how well I shoot a Glock and the overall comfort in my hand, Glock wins (for me). I'm also partial to S&W M&P for my comfort and shooting ability. Sig is up there too.
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Old 08-06-2012, 12:19 PM   #10
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Make sure when deciding between Glock and SA that you end up with the one that you shoot better and is more comfortable in your hand. They are close enough in price that it is negligible. Personally, I want to like the SA XDM more, but it just doesn't feel right in my hand. I love the XDM and shoot it pretty well, but when I compare it how well I shoot a Glock and the overall comfort in my hand, Glock wins (for me). I'm also partial to S&W M&P for my comfort and shooting ability. Sig is up there too.
Good point, I for sure like the finger grooves in the glocks, just fits my hand better than the XD... and speaking of SIG, I didn't try that one. I'll have to put that on the list for next range visit.

I'd like to have a 9 AND a .45, so maybe the G19 for the first buy so it can act as HD/CC/Range, then buy the XDM later strictly for HD
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Old 08-06-2012, 12:35 PM   #11
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Where do you guys CC the G19? As in what part of body, not places.
I actually don't carry the G19 as that's bigger than I like. I carry the PF-9 in its own pocket of my shorts or jeans. Or in the 4 o'clock position using a belt clip that is an add-on for the pf-9.

It's about half the length and width of the G19. I don't wear baggy clothing and I'm tall with a medium build so I had to choose the smallest 9mm I could find.

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Old 08-06-2012, 12:44 PM   #12
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I have a G19 and I love it.

The .40 cartridge does have ballistic advantages through certain barriers that the 9mm doesn't, especially through auto safety glass.
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Old 08-06-2012, 12:57 PM   #13
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I carry a G19, and love it.

As far as the CWP class, the one at the Suncoast Gun Show is kind of known for being a joke...
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Old 08-06-2012, 01:02 PM   #14
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I actually don't carry the G19 as that's bigger than I like. I carry the PF-9 in its own pocket of my shorts or jeans. Or in the 4 o'clock position using a belt clip that is an add-on for the pf-9.
How is the trigger pull on that PF-9? Long pulls are a pain to me.
Why didn't you go with the G26? Just curious if you even thought about that gun and why you decided to go with the PF-9
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I have a G19 and I love it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serbonze View Post
I carry a G19, and love it.

As far as the CWP class, the one at the Suncoast Gun Show is kind of known for being a joke...
Two more votes for the G19 , nice.


...and it sure as hell was!
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Old 08-06-2012, 01:04 PM   #15
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Good info man, I didn't know that. So you're saying stepping up to a .40 really isn't a step up from 9mm? But going to .45 is a big difference right?

Well ya, if that's the case, there is no point in moving up to a G23 from a G19 right?

Do you use the G19 as a CCW?
No, a .45acp is NOT dramatically better and its even less rounds.

I have .45acp guns and they sit in my safe.

My nightstand, my office, my car all have 9mm (Glocks)

I usually carry a S&W 638 .38 revolver (pocket) or G26 (holster) with a factory 12 round mag. It is a smaller than a 19 but not too small. With the 12 round mag, it feels similar to a G19. I have several G19s around though.

.45s were better for penetrating windshields, etc, but ammo has made up 99% of the past difference. You also get dramatically more and cheaper rounds in a mag for the same size.

PS - All the Glock 9mm use the same style mag. It is is long enough it fits. In otherwords, my Glock 17L has a 19 round mag that fits in the G26 with comes with a 10. All Glock 9mm guns can use the Glock factory 33 round mags also.

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Old 08-06-2012, 01:12 PM   #16
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I usually carry a S&W 638 .38 revolver (pocket) or G26 (holster) with a factory 12 round mag. It is a smaller than a 19 but not too small. With the 12 round mag, it feels similar to a G19. I have several G19s around though.
I live in Florida too, wanna part with one of those G19s???

Good info glockman, I didn't try the G26, only the G27 (met a friend at range that had one) and I didn't like how the G27 had so much recoil, maybe that's the .40 compaint you guys are talking about. How do you like the way the G26fires? Does it feel like the G19 recoil wise? The extended mag did make the G27 feel way better, not while shooting though- still felt violent.


...and about your "PS", that is one of the reasons that I started looking more into the G27 at the beginning, you can use other mags (.40 of course)and then fingers hanging off is not that big of an issue and you can keep more rounds in it when it's a HD gun.
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Old 08-06-2012, 01:20 PM   #17
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I live in Florida too, wanna part with one of those G19s???

Good info glockman, I didn't try the G26, only the G27 (met a friend at range that had one) and I didn't like how the G27 had so much recoil, maybe that's the .40 compaint you guys are talking about. How do you like the way the G26fires? Does it feel like the G19 recoil wise? The extended mag did make the G27 feel way better, not while shooting though- still felt violent.


...and about your "PS", that is one of the reasons that I started looking more into the G27 at the beginning, you can use other mags (.40 of course)and then fingers hanging off is not that big of an issue and you can keep more rounds in it when it's a HD gun.
The G26 is very controllable for me. I shoot it as well as any gun I own for short distance and dramatically better than my revolver.

.40 and 9mm do not shoot the same at all. .45 is easier to shoot for me than a .40.

The only reason a .40 was invented was for the FBI since the wimps and women could not handle the superior 10mm round or needed a smaller grip. a .40 is a shorter 10mm.
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Old 08-06-2012, 01:27 PM   #18
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How is the trigger pull on that PF-9? Long pulls are a pain to me.
Why didn't you go with the G26? Just curious if you even thought about that gun and why you decided to go with the PF-9
Thickness.

It bothers me to no end, and I have huge hands. The thicker grip takes longer to get your hand around and glock mags quite frankly are a pain in the ass to load. The PF-9 Is a single stack design which makes it dead reliable (don't get me wrong, the glock mags are proven too) and easier to load AND easier to carry around a spare mag in my pocket instead of a mag that is twice as thick. Compare the G26 to the PF-9 and you'll see they are in entirely different classes.

The trigger pull is nasty long but very consistent. I can literally hold it staged and know exactly when it's going to break.

I also love the Kel-Tec customer service and the fact it's a US made product. There is no other gun like it on the market. Unless you're wearing a speedo, you can conceal it. It even has a rail where you can attach a laser for quick acquisition.
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Old 08-06-2012, 01:40 PM   #19
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PS - Check out the new S&W M&P Shield too.

I have been been thinking about it for a while.

Thinner, M&P proven quality, 9mm, Safety, and great trigger.
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Old 08-06-2012, 01:53 PM   #20
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PS - Check out the new S&W M&P Shield too.

I have been been thinking about it for a while.

Thinner, M&P proven quality, 9mm, Safety, and great trigger.
And this.
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