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Old 03-23-2018, 05:28 PM   #4221
ti317
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Is the Sun ultimately responsible for our climate? Yes.



Can variations in solar output effect our climate? Yes.



Are current (very small) variations in solar output causing our current warming? No.



Can other factors cause climatic changes? Yes.



Can variations in atmospheric greenhouse gases (CO2 primarily) effect climate? Yes.



Are humans causing a precipitous rise in CO2 levels? Yes.



Are humans thus responsible for current warming? Yes.



Simple, really.


Opinion or SCIENCE?
Making statements of fact make me ask for citations.
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Old 03-23-2018, 05:44 PM   #4222
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Opinion or SCIENCE?
Making statements of fact make me ask for citations.
Science, of course.

What about which one of these points are you disputing, so I can better allay your questions?
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Old 03-23-2018, 05:45 PM   #4223
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Science, of course.

What about which one of these points are you disputing, so I can better allay your questions?


All of them. Just stating them doesn’t make them factual.


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Old 03-23-2018, 06:27 PM   #4224
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Is the Sun ultimately responsible for our climate? Yes.

Can variations in solar output effect our climate? Yes.

Are current (very small) variations in solar output causing our current warming? No.

Can other factors cause climatic changes? Yes.

Can variations in atmospheric greenhouse gases (CO2 primarily) effect climate? Yes.

Are humans causing a precipitous rise in CO2 levels? Yes.

Are humans thus responsible for current warming? Yes.

Simple, really.
Can you provide a benchmark reference that proves there is no correlation between the climate change and the effect of solar activity?
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Old 03-23-2018, 10:29 PM   #4225
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Can you provide a benchmark reference that proves there is no correlation between the climate change and the effect of solar activity?
No, I couldn't, but then I'm not suggesting that there is no correlation.

Rather, I'm suggesting that there is and that, given the comparatively steady output of the sun, that solar variance is thus not a source of recent global warming.
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Old 03-23-2018, 10:39 PM   #4226
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What percentage of the "current warming" are humans responsible for and what percentage is naturally occurring (as the IPCC report and all scientists readily admit)?
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Old 03-24-2018, 01:22 AM   #4227
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No, I couldn't, but then I'm not suggesting that there is no correlation.

Rather, I'm suggesting that there is and that, given the comparatively steady output of the sun, that solar variance is thus not a source of recent global warming.
There could be numerous factors that could lead to global (earth) warming. The solar activity could be one.
How come scientists have tied it to human activity? Did they identify, evaluate and reject all other possibilities?
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Old 03-24-2018, 11:05 AM   #4228
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There could be numerous factors that could lead to global (earth) warming. The solar activity could be one.
Could be, but that's been studied is not a,significant factor in current global warming.

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How come scientists have tied it to human activity?
Because CO2 is a potent greenhouse gas, strongly correlated with climate in the past, and massive human emissions of CO2 has sharply raised atmospheric concentrations (now over 400 ppm).

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Did they identify, evaluate and reject all other possibilities?
Yes, extensively.
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Old 03-24-2018, 11:14 AM   #4229
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What percentage of the "current warming" are humans responsible for and what percentage is naturally occurring (as the IPCC report and all scientists readily admit)?
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Old 03-24-2018, 01:14 PM   #4230
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Could be, but that's been studied is not a,significant factor in current global warming.


Because CO2 is a potent greenhouse gas, strongly correlated with climate in the past, and massive human emissions of CO2 has sharply raised atmospheric concentrations (now over 400 ppm).


Yes, extensively.
They did this with the assumption that solar activity has not changed over the years? Were they able to prove comprehensively that it has not?

This is like blaming the cat that crossed the road when I crash the car for the cat was the only thing that I know of that changed in my driving routine from yesterday...Some people call it superstition
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Old 03-24-2018, 03:13 PM   #4231
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Solar activity has changed, a lot
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Old 03-24-2018, 04:41 PM   #4232
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Solar activity has changed, a lot
Really? Lately? And by how much?

The solar constant has wavered a watt/m2 the past few decades.

A lot?

That's out of 1367 watts/m2, less than a tenth of a percent and those fluctuations don't track well with climate warming changes.

The CO2 concentration has risen orders of magnitude more and climatic warming tracks far more closely to this variable.


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Old 03-24-2018, 05:55 PM   #4233
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I wonder who was measuring solar radiance back in 1880...
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Old 03-24-2018, 07:12 PM   #4234
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I wonder who was measuring solar radiance back in 1880...
You sound skeptical but you'd be surprised how accurate licking your finger, sticking it in the air and counting 1 Mississippi, 2 Mississippi,...can be.
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Old 03-25-2018, 06:45 PM   #4235
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I wonder who was measuring solar radiance back in 1880...
A lot of people.

Astronomy was something, even back then, and in our more agrarian past, solar energy (farming being the original renewable energy source) was certainly an important concern.

There's also more modern proxies for measuring solar irradiance such as various isotope ratios among other measures.

But then, I'm getting all sciencey again and none of this will fit on bumper sticker or Tweet.
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Old 03-25-2018, 07:40 PM   #4236
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A lot of people.

Astronomy was something, even back then, and in our more agrarian past, solar energy (farming being the original renewable energy source) was certainly an important concern.

There's also more modern proxies for measuring solar irradiance such as various isotope ratios among other measures.

But then, I'm getting all sciencey again and none of this will fit on bumper sticker or Tweet.
why can you not answer in one line? Why do you have to ramble around but answer the question? Is it because you have no idea but want to sound intelligent?

Last edited by chikoo; 03-25-2018 at 07:42 PM.
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Old 03-25-2018, 08:52 PM   #4237
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why can you not answer in one line? Why do you have to ramble around but answer the question? Is it because you have no idea but want to sound intelligent?
That's our dhumb!
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Old 03-25-2018, 10:36 PM   #4238
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why can you not answer in one line? Why do you have to ramble around but answer the question? Is it because you have no idea but want to sound intelligent?


If he can’t dazzle you with brilliance, then he’s got to baffle you with BS.
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Old 03-26-2018, 10:46 AM   #4239
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Old 03-26-2018, 11:02 AM   #4240
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In other Great Science Conspiracy news:
At Long Last, Flat Earth Rocketeer Finally Manages to Blast Himself Into Sky at God Knows What Speed


It will only be a matter of time before our good friend, Mr. “Mad” Mike Hughes, pulls the rug out from under this other Great Science Conspiracy: a Round Earth (when any fool can plainly see its flat, for Pete's sake!)!

"I’ll feel it in the morning. I won’t be able to get out of bed. At least I can go home and have dinner and see my cats tonight.” said our indefatigable rocketeer, "Mad" Mike. I expect him to be back atop his steam rocket in no time at all.
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