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Old 01-13-2020, 05:06 PM   #1
Geo31
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Agreed Value Insurance

Anybody here have an Agreed Value policy on any of your cars?

My touring is worth more than the book value, and since doing the 330i swap last month, it's worth even more. If something were to happen to it, a "normal" full coverage policy wouldn't even come close to covering my loss.

So, I'm searching for a policy. We have an insurance consultant at work and he suggested I try my regular agent. No joy. Looking for recommendations/reviews if any of y'all have first-hand experience.
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Old 01-13-2020, 05:20 PM   #2
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I hadn't even thought of that, but good point. I'll look into it and post if I find one. Currently with AAA.
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Old 01-13-2020, 06:04 PM   #3
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I insure a couple vehicles via Hagerty. They are great to work with and you set the value of the car (to which, of course, they model the premium off of). Behaves more like "life insurance" for your vehicle than conventional auto insurance.

Since Hagerty is designed for hobby vehicles, however, their biggest condition is that you need to have an active conventional auto policy (with a different provider) for your daily driver.
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Old 01-14-2020, 06:37 AM   #4
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Since Hagerty is designed for hobby vehicles, however, their biggest condition is that you need to have an active conventional auto policy (with a different provider) for your daily driver.
Yeah, I'm finding a lot of the Agreed Value policies don't allow you to use the car as a daily driver. Seems odd to me because a)why would they truly care? and b) the value of this car would be less than a new BMW or even an off-lease one. I guess it avoids people who run scams.
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Old 01-14-2020, 08:18 AM   #5
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A large amount of my client base owns E24/28/30 Classic M cars. Almost most have agreed value insurance from different vendors.
Many regular insurance companies also offer agreed value, albeit through a 3rd. party and net-net is the cost to you is greater. Best to shop the folks like Classic, Hagerty etc. yourself.

The largest caveat by far are the yearly mileage and/or monthly, weekly, daily usage restrictions.
Then there's usually a stipulation that you have another car that is younger than the "special" car you're insuring.

Insofar as the "why" there are such seemingly foolish restrictions (no they're not all the same, shop around) it's all borne out of the data that the actuaries supply them with. They look at the data and that demonstrates what they can/can't offer. Laws of collected averages, which are actually fairly accurate most of the time.

There's also a fine legal definition between declared and agreed value. It's best to ask a LOT of questions. They're NOT the same.

My technician owns a clean E39 M5, and carefully dealt with the "fine print." Not only will he get a check for XXX $$$ if something untoward happens, he gets to keep the car. No buy back.

YMMV.
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Old 01-14-2020, 09:49 AM   #6
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Don,

Thanks so much for that information. So far my research is proving exceedingly difficult to get agreed value on a daily driver. Not quite done yet though. I also need to do the math to see if dropping collision/comprehensive would do the trick. I could essentially self insure for the possibility I total my car (not likely). I more concerned about someone else doing that. I guess I need to collect comps as clean 3 liter swapped tourings come up for sale. Right now I don't think the math makes sense to keep the collision/comprehensive on my two cars.
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Old 01-14-2020, 10:46 AM   #7
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Yeah, I'm finding a lot of the Agreed Value policies don't allow you to use the car as a daily driver. Seems odd to me because a)why would they truly care? and b) the value of this car would be less than a new BMW or even an off-lease one. I guess it avoids people who run scams.
It depends on the use case. Up to 5K miles a year, for instance, is considered by many insurance companies as leisurely usage of a vehicle.

Some national averages to back that up: https://www.autogravity.com/autograv...ar-lease-guide

Hagerty stipulates "occasional pleasure driving" as part of their acceptance criteria, but this also becomes a gray area. For starters, they have to...otherwise a majority of their client base will cancel their policies. Since we are talking about an enthusiast community and their vehicles, I'm sure there also is a bit of an honor system in play with reasonable flexibility. If you call them and talk to them, the people on the line seem very decent and some are even big gearheads themselves...the polar opposite from the abysmal and idiotic people I routinely encounter when dealing with conventional insurance companies.

Case in point, a vehicle I have insured by them is driven only in nice weather and stored in the winter. I have other vehicles as DDs under a personal insurance policy and even have a commercial insurance policy for business vehicles. Easy scenario to show that I'm not trying to abuse them.

I still drive 15-20K miles a year, but the difference today is that this usage is spread across several vehicles (and sometimes via rentals). Say I were to ramp up to heavy driving to client sites again and went back to 25-30K miles a year on a single vehicle, I'd probably buy something new, low-maintenance and inexpensive and toss it on a standard policy.

In terms of miles driven per year and commuting, what's your use case here, George?
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Old 01-14-2020, 01:31 PM   #8
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In terms of miles driven per year and commuting, what's your use case here, George?
That's what's going to kill me here. I drive 105 miles round trip every day as part of my commute, so my annual miles will be north of 25k.

This really IS the car I want to drive. If something happened to it, I'd almost certainly replace it with another, spec'd the same (including 330i swap with 6MT). I'd just like to have a policy that would facilitate that. I'm guessing I won't be able to.

The other thing that would kill me is the chassis miles are over 240k. The car looks and drives like brand new because of the maintenance it has received, but it's hard to get folks to understand that. I'm clearly at the FAR end of the curve.
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Old 01-14-2020, 02:07 PM   #9
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I think you'd have a hard time getting what you think your car is worth in any accident at-fault or not. Mods don't increase a car's value at all (at most a small fraction of what you paid for them). I understand you've put money into it and you value your car highly, but other people do not. Your car is worth what you can sell it for or what you can reasonably prove you can sell it for. If your investment into the car is way outside of that figure, then you need to reassess whether the thing is worth owning at all. This is one of the major reasons putting a lot of money into a car is a problem. For what a fixed price policy would cost you, I'd think you'd just want to pocket it. Your idea to remove collision insurance is totally reasonable IF you actually pocket that difference and don't blow it on other stuff.
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Old 01-14-2020, 03:06 PM   #10
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I think you'd have a hard time getting what you think your car is worth in any accident at-fault or not. Mods don't increase a car's value at all (at most a small fraction of what you paid for them). I understand you've put money into it and you value your car highly, but other people do not. Your car is worth what you can sell it for or what you can reasonably prove you can sell it for. If your investment into the car is way outside of that figure, then you need to reassess whether the thing is worth owning at all. This is one of the major reasons putting a lot of money into a car is a problem. For what a fixed price policy would cost you, I'd think you'd just want to pocket it. Your idea to remove collision insurance is totally reasonable IF you actually pocket that difference and don't blow it on other stuff.
^^This is sounds advice to me.

Unfortunately, George wants his cake and to eat it too, so to speak...Agreed value insurance tends to be for collected classic stuff that is not put into daily use and depreciated...
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Old 01-14-2020, 03:33 PM   #11
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I think you'd have a hard time getting what you think your car is worth in any accident at-fault or not. Mods don't increase a car's value at all (at most a small fraction of what you paid for them). I understand you've put money into it and you value your car highly, but other people do not. Your car is worth what you can sell it for or what you can reasonably prove you can sell it for. If your investment into the car is way outside of that figure, then you need to reassess whether the thing is worth owning at all. This is one of the major reasons putting a lot of money into a car is a problem. For what a fixed price policy would cost you, I'd think you'd just want to pocket it. Your idea to remove collision insurance is totally reasonable IF you actually pocket that difference and don't blow it on other stuff.
First of all, agreed value insurance must be supported (by sales figures or appraisal - I'd use sales figures). You cannot just pick a figure. Manual gearbox wagons in in the shape mine is in sell for a premium. Add in the 3 liter swap and the price goes up more. I'm a realist and would not expect to have insurance cover what I have in it. I certainly would expect to get what I could get in the open market.

Go looking for a REALLY clean, M54B30 6MT swapped touring. You'll see what I mean. They are out there. There are somewhat cheaper ones, but they have issues. A very clean, well sorted one is NOT cheap. People who don't follow the market for manual gearbox tourings are surprised what they sell for.
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Old 01-14-2020, 03:36 PM   #12
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First of all, agreed value insurance must be supported (by sales figures or appraisal - I'd use sales figures). You cannot just pick a figure. Manual gearbox wagons in in the shape mine is in sell for a premium. Add in the 3 liter swap and the price goes up more. I'm a realist and would not expect to have insurance cover what I have in it. I certainly would expect to get what I could get in the open market.

Go looking for a REALLY clean, M54B30 6MT swapped touring. You'll see what I mean. They are out there. There are somewhat cheaper ones, but they have issues. A very clean, well sorted one is NOT cheap. People who don't follow the market for manual gearbox tourings are surprised what they sell for.
That's all fine and good, but you're preaching to the choir... Just like car salesmen, insurance adjusters aren't car enthusiasts and don't look at the car the way we do.

Can't hurt to try. Pull together some comps, contact Hagerty or an equivalent, and let us know what they say. Honestly curious.
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Old 01-14-2020, 03:37 PM   #13
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^^This is sounds advice to me.

Unfortunately, George wants his cake and to eat it too, so to speak...Agreed value insurance tends to be for collected classic stuff that is not put into daily use and depreciated...
It's for cars that for one reason or another are worse substantially more than the book value. I have no doubt I could sell mine today for twice book value. BTW, it has already taken its depreciation (book value). I agree though that my annual mileage is likely to count me out (although not certain yet). An insurance consultant at work thinks it shouldn't matter, but autos are not his forte.
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Old 01-14-2020, 03:41 PM   #14
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That's all fine and good, but you're preaching to the choir... Just like car salesmen, insurance adjusters aren't car enthusiasts and don't look at the car the way we do.

Can't hurt to try. Pull together some comps, contact Hagerty or an equivalent, and let us know what they say. Honestly curious.
That they don't think like we do is entirely the point of agreed value insurance. What matters is what the real world market value is (and again, not trying to anything but).

Hagerty has a tight limit on annual miles. The trick I'm going to have to pull is finding a company that will write a policy for a DD. Good chance it will be too expensive. What's funny about that is, it's worth less than any new BMW that they will write a policy on any and every day of the week.
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Old 01-14-2020, 03:45 PM   #15
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This may be a lifeline:

https://www.thephoenixinsurance.com/...ance-coverage/

[edit] Perhaps another as well:

https://www.grundy.com/mvp/
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Old 01-14-2020, 04:11 PM   #16
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This may be a lifeline:

https://www.thephoenixinsurance.com/...ance-coverage/

[edit] Perhaps another as well:

https://www.grundy.com/mvp/
I can tell you already that Grundy prolly won't fly. I have had two policies with them, one current. They want low annual mileage (<7,000 best), leisure activity (invalidated if driving anywhere but a car show more or less, and proof of separate DD). Basically, like Hagerty.

Maybe they'll do a custom one-off for you... But in my experience, their target market is collector cars not a DD. Oh, and Grundy asks for the entire annual premium upfront. And if memory serves, they don't do credit card transactions...

Let us know how it goes though.
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Old 01-14-2020, 04:18 PM   #17
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Interesting about Grundy. I've read a few things. They currently are advertising agreed value for daily drivers and I've read of some people getting that. I'll have to call them this week.

Biggest thing I'm worried about is it simply being too expensive. Then I'll just self-insure for losses and get rid of my collision/comprehensive.
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Old 01-14-2020, 04:24 PM   #18
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Interesting about Grundy. I've read a few things. They currently are advertising agreed value for daily drivers and I've read of some people getting that. I'll have to call them this week.

Biggest thing I'm worried about is it simply being too expensive. Then I'll just self-insure for losses and get rid of my collision/comprehensive.
If they do DD, then I'm guessing that you won't be happy with the premium for the underwritten value...I looked into moving my 330Cic to Grundy, with a third car as my DD on record... it wasn't pretty. Also, I'm guessing they will still want the whole premium upfront.

I'd go with the self insuring thing, which is what i did for my DD 330cic (just have liability cvrage). Granted it's not in good a shape as yours, it's getting to where the value to an E46 buyer will be more than the plummeting book value.
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Old 01-14-2020, 05:05 PM   #19
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First of all, agreed value insurance must be supported (by sales figures or appraisal - I'd use sales figures). You cannot just pick a figure. Manual gearbox wagons in in the shape mine is in sell for a premium. Add in the 3 liter swap and the price goes up more. I'm a realist and would not expect to have insurance cover what I have in it. I certainly would expect to get what I could get in the open market.

Go looking for a REALLY clean, M54B30 6MT swapped touring. You'll see what I mean. They are out there. There are somewhat cheaper ones, but they have issues. A very clean, well sorted one is NOT cheap. People who don't follow the market for manual gearbox tourings are surprised what they sell for.
A regular insurance payout would be negotiable to a fair market value. That's what's covered. This isn't like a classic car where you have drivers and show cars that have wildly different values that need to be assessed and appraised before a wreck. Your car is worth a couple grand more than a wagon with an auto which coincidentally is about what it would cost to swap an auto to a manual. It comes out to be worth like $4000-6000.

Quote:
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It's for cars that for one reason or another are worse substantially more than the book value. I have no doubt I could sell mine today for twice book value. BTW, it has already taken its depreciation (book value). I agree though that my annual mileage is likely to count me out (although not certain yet). An insurance consultant at work thinks it shouldn't matter, but autos are not his forte.
Your car's book value is like $2000-3500...

I agree in concept that you should be able to obtain an agreed value policy, but what I can guarantee is that the insurance company will make sure they make their money and you'd be better off dumping collision coverage.
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Old 01-14-2020, 05:11 PM   #20
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That's what's going to kill me here. I drive 105 miles round trip every day as part of my commute, so my annual miles will be north of 25k.

This really IS the car I want to drive. If something happened to it, I'd almost certainly replace it with another, spec'd the same (including 330i swap with 6MT). I'd just like to have a policy that would facilitate that. I'm guessing I won't be able to.

The other thing that would kill me is the chassis miles are over 240k. The car looks and drives like brand new because of the maintenance it has received, but it's hard to get folks to understand that. I'm clearly at the FAR end of the curve.
FWIW, mileage on the chassis did not come up when scoping my Hagerty plan.

https://www.hagertyagent.com/insuran...-car-insurance

Based on this, they'd be willing to go up to 7,500 miles/year on a seasonal driver. You could buy another E46, add it with your Z3 into a commuting rotation and insure the whole lot via Hagerty.

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I think you'd have a hard time getting what you think your car is worth in any accident at-fault or not. Mods don't increase a car's value at all (at most a small fraction of what you paid for them). I understand you've put money into it and you value your car highly, but other people do not. Your car is worth what you can sell it for or what you can reasonably prove you can sell it for. If your investment into the car is way outside of that figure, then you need to reassess whether the thing is worth owning at all. This is one of the major reasons putting a lot of money into a car is a problem. For what a fixed price policy would cost you, I'd think you'd just want to pocket it. Your idea to remove collision insurance is totally reasonable IF you actually pocket that difference and don't blow it on other stuff.
Depends on the actual cost difference between policies. Compared to what my primary insurance was quoting me for the same vehicles, Hagerty quoted a small premium on one and a much better price on the other.
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